Related
I am probably being naive here but with SD card prices so low now ....I cant understand why mobile manufacturers wont provide their devices with a "useable" capacity of memory .....
Or is the RAM memory very differant to SD memory ???
Is their a possibility of maybe in the near future, HTC launching a device with say a full gigabyte of onboard RAM ???
Yep, RAM is more expensive than ROM. By the way, this needs space which you just haven't in the Magician. It would also be too expensive, since a 1 GB card costs around 100 €, which is far too expensive for a manufacturer of these devices. Besides that, the magician is quite cheap in my opinion.
Dandie,
i think if i-mate provides us with the range of devices all would be happy and decide what to buy. e.g.:
-basic configuration - 64mb ram
-advanced conf - 64mb ram +512mb built in sd
-extreme 64mb ram +2gb built in sd
or whatever else breakdown is feasible or optimal. the price would respectively warry e.g. +$50; +$200.
i also don't see a problem to fit SD chip to device - its much smaller without body
it is also related to all device manufacturers. Since few of manufacturers do it i see some reasons for it:
1. low probable but: sd patent owners do not want to go for built in option or ask too much for it (but i know that some of the phone manufacturers already started production of the devices with build in miniSD chip);
2. it is not profitable or worthwhile from the marketing point of view;
3. I heard a lot from, people that SD cards are not very much reliable, sometimes it looses data, sometimes brokes. Thus it used for temporary storage purposes and nobody wants to take a risk with loosing your data…
4. and last but not least: they all are stupid and we here the only Einsteins who invented such simple way to increase memory
Although I have a 1GB SD Card in my JAM, I wouldn't want it to be built in. I'd rather take it out and put it in my card reader (USB 2.0) especially for transferring that 170MB DIVX file!
And what about those situations where you just give your SD card to your friend to copy stuff over and then back in your JAM?
And what about those situations where you just plug in your digi cam's SD card and have a quick view at the pics taken?
KTA,
nobody says "we want to replace external SD with built-in one" we say that we want to have both options: (i) BIG internal storage and (ii) SD/MMC slot for card.
internal storage would be used to keep our garbage on and forget about memory limit problems. And external for exchanging data with others, to move high-capacity data in and out and whatever else you want to use it for...
I never seen a person complaining on big HDD
Let people have an option!!!
Just guessing - but wouldn't there be an increase in power consumption with an increase in volatile memory?
Maybe the reason there is no 1gb RAM option in the PDA world today is that the battery life would be like 1 hour.
Mark One said:
Just guessing - but wouldn't there be an increase in power consumption with an increase in volatile memory?
Maybe the reason there is no 1gb RAM option in the PDA world today is that the battery life would be like 1 hour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*BINGO* you got the answer right... :wink:
- $
- Battery life...
- OS Stability with bigger memory...
- Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce...
The rest is history...
xirc0m, Mark One,
DAMN WRONG !!!!
* Question of money is not discussed since people want to have extra memory and ready to pay reasonably. Again, I assume several options to fit every pocket. Don’t want extra memory – buy basic version.
*Do you have increased consumption with SD card inserted? Then why it should be with built in sd card?
* OS Stability with bigger memory… guys, if I have 100gb harddrive and you have 30gb does it mean that os stability is much lower in my case? I doubt
*Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce... SPEED would remain the same! But if you want to access built-in storage then you’ll get the speed of sd card
let me reiterate again. The whole idea is to have one big sd card built-in and have another slot for external card. There is still may be fast RAM as usual devices have
I suspect the main one is battery life; unlike SD card, which uses flash memory, which does not require power to maintain its content, the device's RAM needs constant power to maintain its content; that's why when your battery goes dead, your card content is still there, but not your main memory. You may then ask why not use flash for main memory? That's because Flash has a limited number of writes (although for most people it's virtually limitless now), and is slower.
Did you see pictures of the PCB? There is just no space left for more/bigger chips. The only thing you can do is replace the current chips with ones of the same size but more memory. These are expensive. Adding another slot inside the case wouldn't really help, since you still need space for the socket and there would be another sensitive part with not soldered contacts. I guess devices with up to 512 MB ROM built in exist already but they are bigger than the Magician. Don't forget: The magician was the smallest PPC available when it was released. It even had the phone built in. Trust me: There is no space left. The SD-RAM memory upgrade availble is done by exchanging the current chip and the price of 200 € tells you that 1 GB is just not realistic. Even though Flash-ROM is cheaper, it would increase the price to about double i think (don't forget, the end customer price always is a lot higher than the manufacturing costs - at least double the price I'd say) - not really interesting.
So - wait for fast 2 GB SD cards to be released (I'm still waiting for my Sandisk Ultra 2GB for almost 6 months now) and there you have your 2 GB ...
Why not to solder chip on the circuit board then? No contacts, no connectors, just chip. Sure, there is no space now. But don’t forget that when circuit board was designed all components were distributed proportionally to cover all board. If you add new stuff – you redesign it and tighten components. It only seems that no more room.
I also agree that built-in sd price would be different from external sd. Again, 1gb, 2gb, 8gb – this is just talks; we discuss the idea on having chip flash memory built-in.
Well, there is a flash ROM chip built in, as you know. It has 64 MB and is used for the Storage, the Ext_ROM and the OS. There is an upgrade available that makes it 128 MB ROM - 200 bucks! And also, I don't agree with you saying theres enough space left on the Magician. There is no space left at all! This device is one of the most compact electronic devices on the market. There is not enough space for one single additional chip. You have to wait for either the other or the memory chips to decrease in size and/or increase in features/capacity/speed (what they do). The next device probably will have more RAM, more ROM - but not 1GB. That's for certain.
avyshnya said:
KTA,
I never seen a person complaining on big HDD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using your HDD example, I thought the issue here was not the size of the "HDD" but whether the HDD is internal or external.
Can you imagine HTC with 3 different production lines, each with a different "embedded-SD" size? I don't think so ...
RAM goes against the whole quick standby capability of the device. I can suspend my handset into a minimal amount power consumption mode and then resume it right back to where it was before without any loading delay.
With RAM, I would have to hibernate any volatile information to a persistent store which takes both time and space. Otherwise I need to keep power applied the RAM while in suspend mode which costs me in battery life. Neither of these options are very attractive.
Plus a RAM store is yet another memory store to juggle. The OS would have to be modified to use it and I already have enough stores between main menory and the expansion slot. I shouldn't need to juggle another one. Finally, PCB real estate and battery load is limited so I don't want to add another memory controller or memory that needs constant recharging as RAM does.
Maybe increasing the cache on the processor is the way to go.
Dudes !!
You misunderstand my question !!
Yes I think having a removable SD Card is ESSENTIAL !!
I dont want to replace the external SD card with just an internal one !!
With 2Gb and 4Gb cards on the horizon - I dont think I would require much more storage (for the time being anyway!)
What I mean is .... would there be a possibility in the future of RAM prices dropping and sizes reducing - so that we could have a JAM type device with about 1Gb of RAM instead of the crappy 64Mb ???
What I HATE is having to worry about taking up too much of the measly 64Mb RAM which would then slow down and make the JAM unstable ..... I want to be able to install most/all of my "apps" into Main/Storage and then use my SD card for just Music, Movies, Games etc ....
Hopefully the RAM would be non-volatile so would remain even after a hard reset so no more need for constant Backups and re-installing etc !
1Gb Main/Storage Memory + 4Gb SD Card Memory = Perfect Device !!
It just seems crazy to me that Removable storage is reaching for the sky ..... but most of the time I have to be careful what/where I install programs on my device in case it slows down or becomes unstable ....
64Mb Ram + 2,4,8,16,32Gb SD Card = So Crazy It Makes Me Sick !!!
PS - I hear that JAM version 2 will have 128Mb RAM and built-in WIFI .... so there is room in there after all !!!
1GB RAM would indeed be nice, but that would be too expensive. The SD cards aren't made the same way. They're cheaper but slower. Even the Storage is a lot slower (which I found out by doing simple tests).
PS - I hear that JAM version 2 will have 128Mb RAM and built-in WIFI .... so there is room in there after all !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet that they will make it even smaller, because most of the parts in any device will get smaller over the time. When they developed the Magician there wasn't any room for anything more though.
Interesting article on the future of Flash Memory .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20041112/index.html
Dandie said:
Well, there is a flash ROM chip built in, as you know. It has 64 MB and is used for the Storage, the Ext_ROM and the OS. There is an upgrade available that makes it 128 MB ROM - 200 bucks! And also, I don't agree with you saying theres enough space left on the Magician. There is no space left at all! This device is one of the most compact electronic devices on the market. There is not enough space for one single additional chip. You have to wait for either the other or the memory chips to decrease in size and/or increase in features/capacity/speed (what they do). The next device probably will have more RAM, more ROM - but not 1GB. That's for certain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd gladly trade the cheapo toy-grade camera they shoehorned into this thing for a more appropriate amount of memory - anytime. That's for sure!
grrrrrr..
i think, another reason for not putting a 1gb a internal memory is because the phone still cant stand to have that large appilcation running.. it will surely always lockup if a total of 1gb load of applications you put in there. not to say + the another 1gb in external.
avyshnya said:
xirc0m, Mark One,
DAMN WRONG !!!!
* Question of money is not discussed since people want to have extra memory and ready to pay reasonably. Again, I assume several options to fit every pocket. Don’t want extra memory – buy basic version.
*Do you have increased consumption with SD card inserted? Then why it should be with built in sd card?
* OS Stability with bigger memory… guys, if I have 100gb harddrive and you have 30gb does it mean that os stability is much lower in my case? I doubt
*Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce... SPEED would remain the same! But if you want to access built-in storage then you’ll get the speed of sd card
let me reiterate again. The whole idea is to have one big sd card built-in and have another slot for external card. There is still may be fast RAM as usual devices have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yo...avyshnya,
Guess you have never work in a Mobile Phone / a PDA device company before...or have you done any R&D on this...
As I mention above still valids...
-$ , its all about Marketing issue...you are not looking at their point of view.... anything is possible the throw in the big chunk of memory...Technology is there...but they will not excute that so fast...
- Consume more Batt...yes it does with more memory...to your naked eye...you do not see it... if you seriously benchmark it you will realise it does...whether its external or internal memory
- Stablity on OS... still does... you are talkin about your PC...this is no PC...its PocketPC... sorry you are not benchmarking in correct terms...
- Speed... go n do a benchmark...you will see it yourself...
do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))
I believe you're thinking of Swap - check out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=531988
Also don't forget using your SD card as swap partition will thrash it and could shorten the life of your SD card due to alot of writes.
If you really want to do this look for a program called 'swapper'.
oh ok thanks for the heads up !
johnnie93 said:
do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is pretty much the function the swap file provides. There is a differentiation on a desktop because on a desktop files are stored on a hdd, whereas a portable device usually uses flash as its storage and swap.
And just to clarify, Vista readyboost is completely different to RAM or swap partitions.
Flash memory is limited to a certain number of writes, it is a very large number so in normal use you will probably never hit it. Reading however will not affect the lifetime of your flash memory.
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
Readyboost uses an SD/USB memory card/stick as a cache to quickly load frequently used files, this is because it's generally faster to read from flash memory than from the hard disk. Readyboost DOES NOT write very often, this is why it is suitable for use with flash memory.
Swap/Paging/Virtual memory is completely different, it is an area on a disk, a file on windows or a seperate partition on linux, where the operating system can dump some of the data that is in RAM if it runs out of space. If you have low RAM or are using high memory applications this will do alot of reading AND writing, therefore will reduce the lifetime of your flash memory. This is why swap partitions are normally on hard disks.
Hope this helps explain it!
robblue2x said:
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure they do. Just considerably longer. Also, hard disks, for quite a long time now, have been capable of dynamically remapping around worn out sections and come with a decent chunk of unused space that is used for remapping. Hard disks also suffer from gradual demagnetization -- over time, the differing magnetic fields on the platter will interact with each other, causing data loss. You can generally expect a finite life time of any hard disk before large sections of the platter become unusable. I have noticed this particularly to be the case with winvista, which by default likes to catalog and recatalog your disk (they say for fast searching), but the end result is writing and rewriting of the same small portion of the disk, which causes it to wear out VERY quickly, though leaving the balance of the disk perfectly functional.
there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now
That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
SyXbiT said:
there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
R3nrut said:
That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!
I would definitely try it (I'm an Electrical Engineer, and solder at work all the time)
But i'd rather buy a 288MB chip from somewhere, rather than rip it from a different device.
I don't wanna throw away money.
if someone knows a supplier for those chips let me know and I'll try it and post screenshots
The last 2 smartphones I have owned there has been a discussion on upgrading the memory with huge threads and a few people trying. The end result has always been it is by far cheaper to get a new phone in another year which will have a faster processor, more memory, more storage etc...
Sure it can be done but with how fast technology changes it probably isn't worth it.
So is HTC HERO worth buying for more RAM and speed??
Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.
lbcoder said:
Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the htc magic isn't exactly the same. Some htc magic models (like google ion and tmobile mytouch) only have 192megs of RAM.
My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..
You are probably confusing internal FLASH with RAM. A class 6 uSD card is NOWHERE NEAR the speed of the ram. The RAM is orders of magnitude faster.
sonikamd said:
My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
I thought there was a technical manual out for the G1 somewhere that listed parts... Not just the service manual which showed you how to open the device for repair. Could be worth running a decent google search for the motherboard and parts and then find a supplier for the RAM if you're game in trying to solder more on.
Thanks to the flexibility of Android as well, I'm pretty sure it would be able to read and make use of the extra RAM too.
blackeyedbrian said:
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last I heard it was going to Sprint instead possibly. I really hope it doesn't!
NeoBlade said:
Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...this is exactly what I thought...
With the recent rumors of the g1 not supporting donut due to its lack of memory... this mod is number 1 on my list... I plan to do this soon... any one else?
Just got a Samsung Vibrant.
I noticed the phone says I only have 326MB of total RAM. I thought this phone was suppose to have 512MB of RAM? Is 326MB normal or did I get an odd phone?
No that's right. It's all the kernel will allow us to use. Even with the unofficial froyo roms out, we only get 341mb.
Friends don't let friends flash drunk...
Cool. Thank you for the information.
Ravynmagi said:
Hmm... Seems strange they make Android phones with 512 and 768MB of RAM. Will the official Froyo be able to access more RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also strange that hard drive manufacturers advertise a "500GB" hard drive when you really only get about 465GB of actual usable space.
Same concept. Froyo may be able to utilize more RAM than Eclair but you'll never get the full "512MB"
jrizk07 said:
It's also strange that hard drive manufacturers advertise a "500GB" hard drive when you really only get about 465GB of actual usable space.
Same concept. Froyo may be able to utilize more RAM than Eclair but you'll never get the full "512MB"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say it is more like on your PC. You may have 4 GB installed, but when you look at it it will tell you you have only access to 3.5 GB because other hardware is using the memory, like a shared GPU etc.
jrizk07 said:
It's also strange that hard drive manufacturers advertise a "500GB" hard drive when you really only get about 465GB of actual usable space.
Same concept. Froyo may be able to utilize more RAM than Eclair but you'll never get the full "512MB"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm getting tired of people making these retarded f****ng comparisons. Hard Drive capacities go down due to formating. Also, a 1 byte file takes up the smallest allocation unit on the drive, so space is wasted there as well. Better file systems are better about it, but unless you're writing raw data to the hard drive there's no way to avoid formatting it and losing space or writing data to it and losing space due to allocation boundaries. I've never heard of anyone Formatting RAM, have you? If the smallest allocation unit on the HDD is 4KB, then a 1Byte file will really take up 4KB on the drive's FS.
RAM is totally different. If there is 512 RAM there's 512 RAM. The only time you will see less than your amount of RAM on a computer is if the computer is allocatting a certain amount of RAM for use by an integrated graphics card (or something else).
Problem with our phones is that they're set up like the latter.
We don't have 512 RAM. We never have, and we never will. We haev 340'ish and the rest is GPU RAM. You're never going to run general applications on that RAM.
Oh. I had edited my reply because I had assumed I found my answer from this...
developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html
"HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB"
I had assumed that mean the official Froyo when we got it would have 512MB available.
So I guess I misunderstood their meaning there. So the 326MB is pretty much the max my applications will have to work with on this phone?
I guess I'm puzzled because I was in T-Mobile a couple days ago and I was going back and forth between getting this Vibrant and the MyTouch 4G. The MyTouch 4G advertises 768MB of RAM, while the Vibrant advertises 512MB of RAM.
So now I'm back to my original confusion. Why would HTC put 768MB of RAM in the MyTouch 4G if Android can't even use 512MB? *confused*
Ya'll compared it to the Windows XP limitation with only seeing 3.2-ish GB of RAM. But Dell doesn't install 8GB of RAM in Windows XP computers either. I guess I could maybe understand the 512MB phones if some of the memory is going towards video. But the 768MB phone doesn't make sense then.
This is my first Android device, so I'm still trying to figure out these things. Sorry for the dumb questions.
Ravynmagi said:
Oh. I had edited my reply because I had assumed I found my answer from this...
developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html
"HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB"
I had assumed that mean the official Froyo when we got it would have 512MB available.
So I guess I misunderstood their meaning there. So the 326MB is pretty much the max my applications will have to work with on this phone?
I guess I'm puzzled because I was in T-Mobile a couple days ago and I was going back and forth between getting this Vibrant and the MyTouch 4G. The MyTouch 4G advertises 768MB of RAM, while the Vibrant advertises 512MB of RAM.
So now I'm back to my original confusion. Why would HTC put 768MB of RAM in the MyTouch 4G if Android can't even use 512MB? *confused*
Ya'll compared it to the Windows XP limitation with only seeing 3.2-ish GB of RAM. But Dell doesn't install 8GB of RAM in Windows XP computers either. I guess I could maybe understand the 512MB phones if some of the memory is going towards video. But the 768MB phone doesn't make sense then.
This is my first Android device, so I'm still trying to figure out these things. Sorry for the dumb questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all. There are no dumb question. Second. Android uses all of the RAM. But as the phone reserves memory for hardware and other system essential services, you will only be able to use a certain amount of the memory. In this case around 345 out of the 512. The rest is put away so that the OS can run stable etc.
So for the MyTouch 4G it says that there is 768 MB installed, but you won't see all of that. The phone will reserve certain amount for it's hardware and you will never be able to free it unless you know how to change the kernel.
Hope this clears any confusion up.
Ravynmagi said:
Ya'll compared it to the Windows XP limitation with only seeing 3.2-ish GB of RAM. But Dell doesn't install 8GB of RAM in Windows XP computers either. I guess I could maybe understand the 512MB phones if some of the memory is going towards video. But the 768MB phone doesn't make sense then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for xp, the memory limitation is due to 32bit memory addressing. 32bits can address a theoretical 4gb, however due to also addressing gpu memory and probably some other reasons xp can't address the entire 4gb and so you see 3.xGB.
i can't really speak to android or the vibrant, but i'm guessing (like others have said) we are losing some of our ram in a share with the gpu.
I think most people are missing the issue here.
The phones are advertised as having 512 MB RAM.
When you buy a computer, and it says 512, it comes with 512 (only exception is the one I stated - integrated graphics cards sharing system RAM - but that is usually listed on the Computer Spec sheet).
So, when they get a phone and it says 512 MB RAM, they expect for there to be 512 Application-accessible RAM on the device.
HTC adds more RAM to put the user closer to the advertised specs. Most other manufacturers do not.
So users end up with 326 MB RAM wondering if they got what they paid for.
Which... they really didn't if you use you common sense, but companies will always use technicalities tand semantics o defend their decisions and/or actions.
N8ter said:
I think most people are missing the issue here.
The phones are advertised as having 512 MB RAM.
When you buy a computer, and it says 512, it comes with 512 (only exception is the one I stated - integrated graphics cards sharing system RAM - but that is usually listed on the Computer Spec sheet).
So, when they get a phone and it says 512 MB RAM, they expect for there to be 512 Application-accessible RAM on the device.
HTC adds more RAM to put the user closer to the advertised specs. Most other manufacturers do not.
So users end up with 326 MB RAM wondering if they got what they paid for.
Which... they really didn't if you use you common sense, but companies will always use technicalities tand semantics o defend their decisions and/or actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with you. In fact some of us in xda have discovered that sgs indeed has less than 512MB of RAM. We are still somehow trying to defend Samsung by say Galaxy TAB has more RAM (when Samsung advertise 512MB only for TAB)!
On a side note - Hard Drive capacity is measured in millions of bytes hence 500,000millionbytes
will be around 465GB only (unformated)!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I doubt ~170 mb is being allocated for the radio and for hardware addressing space. It's my opinion that the phone actually only comes with 384mb ram.
raduque said:
I doubt ~170 mb is being allocated for the radio and for hardware addressing space. It's my opinion that the phone actually only comes with 384mb ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no.
10ch
Prankey said:
I completely agree with you. In fact some of us in xda have discovered that sgs indeed has less than 512MB of RAM. We are still somehow trying to defend Samsung by say Galaxy TAB has more RAM (when Samsung advertise 512MB only for TAB)!
On a side note - Hard Drive capacity is measured in millions of bytes hence 500,000millionbytes
will be around 465GB only (unformated)!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many do list that but what makes the drives smaller is formatting. The raw size is what it is, but the formatted capacity is much less. You can ser this on sf cards easily. Format it as fat32 then ntfs, and the end (formatted) capacities will be different. Then play with allocation sizes as well ;p
If you have hordes of small files it can really eat inyo the space on ut hard drive, as well, since a file can only be as small as the smallest cluster size in the filesystem.
Even if they made the drive 1024mb x however many gb they say it is, that will be instantly cut fown tje minute you format a fs onto the drive. There is also space the fs reserves for system use, as well. Mft and such.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
anthonys2r said:
no.
10ch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's right hardware addrrssimg shouldn't need that much, and graphics in a phone shouldn't need that much either. Maybe so,eone should sue Samsumg for false advertisement and see what they say.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
anthonys2r said:
no.
10ch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can "no." all you want, but unless you have proof to the contrary, I'm going to stick with my OPINION that the phone has 384mb.
There's no way in hell the Radio, hardware addressing space and/or GPU frame buffer use 170-180mb of the ram.
raduque said:
You can "no." all you want, but unless you have proof to the contrary, I'm going to stick with my OPINION that the phone has 384mb.
There's no way in hell the Radio, hardware addressing space and/or GPU frame buffer use 170-180mb of the ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree just checked and vibrant shows similar ram to htc aria, which has 384mb ram stock.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
raduque said:
You can "no." all you want, but unless you have proof to the contrary, I'm going to stick with my OPINION that the phone has 384mb.
There's no way in hell the Radio, hardware addressing space and/or GPU frame buffer use 170-180mb of the ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a thread in the i9k forum that details the amounts of ram reserved in the kernel source. Just about every feature on the phone has dedicated ram, weather or not it's currently in use. That plus what the kernel shows as available adds up to 512mb. It's stupid, but that's how it is. Poor and lazy software engineering, IMO. Unfortunately, doing the allocation in a sane way and having it work in android properly is very difficult without all of the source, which we will probably never have.
It's not really any better with other manufacturers. They all do it. I think they ought to be required to disclose user available ram amounts, but nobody cares what I think.
N8ter said:
I'm getting tired of people making these retarded f****ng comparisons. Hard Drive capacities go down due to formating. Also, a 1 byte file takes up the smallest allocation unit on the drive, so space is wasted there as well. Better file systems are better about it, but unless you're writing raw data to the hard drive there's no way to avoid formatting it and losing space or writing data to it and losing space due to allocation boundaries. I've never heard of anyone Formatting RAM, have you? If the smallest allocation unit on the HDD is 4KB, then a 1Byte file will really take up 4KB on the drive's FS.
RAM is totally different. If there is 512 RAM there's 512 RAM. The only time you will see less than your amount of RAM on a computer is if the computer is allocatting a certain amount of RAM for use by an integrated graphics card (or something else).
Problem with our phones is that they're set up like the latter.
We don't have 512 RAM. We never have, and we never will. We haev 340'ish and the rest is GPU RAM. You're never going to run general applications on that RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had 326 RAM .After installation of FROYO 2.2,my Galaxy can see only 304 RAm.Why?I expected to get more RAM with FROYO 2.2 Why did this happened?
N8ter said:
He's right hardware addrrssimg shouldn't need that much, and graphics in a phone shouldn't need that much either. Maybe so,eone should sue Samsumg for false advertisement and see what they say.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should do it. You know, since you know exactly what you're talking about.
I'm wondering whether there's a way to test the internal NAND speed, then we can compare and balance whether to use extend SD card.
I have a Sandisk Class4 !6G microsd which has 19M/16M read and write, but if the NAND still much faster than this card, im considering to use internal storage only(less mp3 and game instead), its hard to balance.
Sorry to re-awaken an old thread, but since you've had no reply: I had the same question, and found an app in the Market called "Android Hacker's System Tool" that includes a storage speed test (among many other things).
On my Motorola Droid1 running MIUI (not o/c'ed currently), I was shocked to see NAND speeds of only 1.9 MB/s read and 0.21 MB/s write. The OEM 16gb SD card showed a bit over 2 MB/s for both read and write... at least symmetrical, but still very slow. No wonder apps on the SD card seem just as quick as those in NAND!
Any thoughts as to why IO is this poor overall, and why NAND write in particular is so pathetic? The phone feels very smooth right now.
Why do you post questions about your Droid in a Windows Phone forum? Samsung Focus is Windows Phone 7. There is nothing in common with your Droid.
rvonder, interest numbers, thanks for the post. I'm a little surprised at the low numbers as well. Especially the writes. Hopefully we will have a test app for WP7 soon.
Just going by deduction from here. If the phone feels snappy even with those numbers, isn't it safe to assume it doesn't matter ?
rvonder said:
Sorry to re-awaken an old thread, but since you've had no reply: I had the same question, and found an app in the Market called "Android Hacker's System Tool" that includes a storage speed test (among many other things).
On my Motorola Droid1 running MIUI (not o/c'ed currently), I was shocked to see NAND speeds of only 1.9 MB/s read and 0.21 MB/s write. The OEM 16gb SD card showed a bit over 2 MB/s for both read and write... at least symmetrical, but still very slow. No wonder apps on the SD card seem just as quick as those in NAND!
Any thoughts as to why IO is this poor overall, and why NAND write in particular is so pathetic? The phone feels very smooth right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
foxbat121 said:
Why do you post questions about your Droid in a Windows Phone forum? Samsung Focus is Windows Phone 7. There is nothing in common with your Droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rather than waste anybody's time, please read the question first next time, it has nothing to do specificaly with android but rather about the use of external memory card considering the Focus uses built-in NAND memory that might be much faster than the external memory (or not). Since Windows 7 phone "merges" both memory, it would most likely be at the speed of the slowes of both...
thegarmac said:
rather than waste anybody's time, please read the question first next time, it has nothing to do specificaly with android but rather about the use of external memory card considering the Focus uses built-in NAND memory that might be much faster than the external memory (or not). Since Windows 7 phone "merges" both memory, it would most likely be at the speed of the slowes of both...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read his question? He was asking why his Droid phone SD card IO is so slow. First of all the Android app in question does something really stupid. Last time I checked, it gives out really low IO score on my Captivate as well. So, I'd say it is the app that's not really designed well, or could be Android OS doesn't offer a good API for testing the SD performance. None of these are related to how WP7 works. As you mentioned above, WP7 treats memory differently and no one knows exactly how SD performance affects entire system (we knew that most 'faster' SD cards don't work). And we don't have any app to test native IO speeds of the combined memory. So, this is really comparing apples to oranges.
Hi,
I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad tabled with memory specifications of 1GB RAM and 16GB HDD. All nice, until I go in Settings and check at settings/applications/storage use/running and all which show a disappointing values of total memory ~550MB RAM (almost half...) and ~12GB (almost 25% less...).
For HDD, I can not accept that the rest of 4GB are hidden because are used by Android 3.1 or used by file system format. Even so, Lenovo should be honest and declare total memory against available memory even is "eaten" by various reasons.
For RAM, I can not find any explanation why I see only half.
Q1-Can somebody explain me if tablet is faulty or has a kind of manufacturing issue ?
Q2-Can somebody to check if his tablet has the same memory discrepancies versus manufacturer specifications ?
Thanks!
All tablet's have this "cheaty" way of listing specs. But if you buy a laptop and it says 200gb. You can be pretty sure that windows 7 or what ever is installed is taking up space. The same applies to RAM. While the system may come with 4gb ram, the system has "eaten" som of it.
So, I don't really see the complaint here?
siggehandf said:
All tablet's have this "cheaty" way of listing specs. But if you buy a laptop and it says 200gb. You can be pretty sure that windows 7 or what ever is installed is taking up space. The same applies to RAM. While the system may come with 4gb ram, the system has "eaten" som of it.
So, I don't really see the complaint here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
The specs will never match the actual available memory since there is always space allocated to system whether it be ram or hdd
Sent from my GALAXY NEXUS using Tapatalk
sorinutzu said:
For RAM, I can not find any explanation why I see only half.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's likely that the other half is being reserved as video memory.
Hi,
Thanks for reply. I've done a check on other tablets and they show the same lower memory than spec, except Asus 501 I think with ICS 4.
However, I think it should be specified total phisical memory and available memory.
sorinutzu said:
Hi,
Thanks for reply. I've done a check on other tablets and they show the same lower memory than spec, except Asus 501 I think with ICS 4.
However, I think it should be specified total phisical memory and available memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Total available ram will be different and much less than the specs on any Android or mobile device. The system uses memory to load OS and for graphics.
Also the memory space will be less formatted and with all the system apps.
Just like a formatted hard drive or ssd is less than spec.
I do not know why people still complain about these things it is pretty ignorant. Have you ever owned a computer, tablet or cell phone before?
Sent from my HTC Rezound