Database Users

G2 rootkit, prevents any permenant modification.

Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot

Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.

Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.

Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.

i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.

funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.

byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.

devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.

I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.

if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons

But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.

Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!

Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?

im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol

PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).

Oops 10chars

HTC rocks!!!!!!!

My dealings with HTC

Just posted this on the T-mobs forums and some of this is already in the "lets get the kernel thread" but I think we should make a single source for what information HTC is giving us in case this does proceed to legal action, etc. Had to futz a little with the hyperlinks since I'm a new poster to XDA but am not a new user of this blissful place. So here it is...
I call BS on the whole thing.
I've been trying to get HTC to release the source code and also bringing up the shenanigans that they pulled on us all with this root block and internal memory bait and switch crap. Here is my dealings with HTC so far. Love the blame game they switch at the end of our discussion. I know this is a lot to read but trust me that this back and forth is quite entertaining.
MY 1ST HTC MESSAGE
To whom it may pertain to... Just purchased a HTC T-mobile G2 aka HTC Vision and have been a avid HTC supporter for quite sometime. Ever since I owned my first HTC device the codenamed blueangel. The fact that HTC would work with the developer community pulled me toward your devices. I can't believe you guys (HTC) would lock down the successor to the device that helped you start the "open" revolution. I know it was most probably T-mobile that made you do it but that is besides the point. Especially since they have blamed you in the press. You have spit it the face of the developer community and shame on you and T-mobile. This protection will be broken I have no doubt of that but the fact that HTC put it there at all is what is in question. Please don't make this a race of protection...hack...protection...hack. OPEN means we should work together not against each other. So please do the right thing and help us either root these devices or give us the kernel source to help us along. Or even better do both of the above and show you respect the dev community like we all thought you did. Below I have included the first post of a stream that will become a torrent against HTC from the XDA devs. Thanks for your cooperation.
MY 1ST HTC REPLY
We cannot comment on whether or not HTC has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. Rooting the phone may open the phone up to virus attacks and other un-secure activities, as well as introduce intended functionality, and as such is very difficult for us to support. We cannot comment on whether or not HTC, Google, or T-Mobile has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. All three companies work very closely to bring you the best experience on the phone possible. I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities. We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review. When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.
MY 2ND HTC MESSAGE
I understand the position of HTC to not comment on the situation at hand even though it has already been outed in the press by T-mobile that HTC did indeed lock the phone. So either you are saying that the T-mobile press release was a hoax and HTC did nothing with write protection or HTC just want's the problem to go away. As far as not wanting us to root because of unsafe activities.... Well I don't even know where to start with that comment. We are all big boys and girls and can handle the effect of our actions. It's like saying Toyota installed a system in my car that will only let a certified technician open the hood because I may insert washer fluid into the engine instead of oil. Most companies would love it if you would void your warranty. Does it not lead to less operating cost for HTC in the long run to not support it's products because the warranties are void? You don't want me to void my warranty then do as the GPS companies do and make a disclaimer that I have to read and agree to before I go any further. Also on the subject of voiding warranties did HTC not say that G2 had 4gb's of internal storage? Yet only 1.2gb are available for use because of this lock? Back to the car analogies. If Ford says your car has 200 horse power in the brochure and (AFTER!!!!) you buy it you learn that only 50 horse power is unlocked you might be a little angry. No? I understand the position of all big companies is to play dumb until something either is forgotten or legal channels make them play smart but I do have to say that I did not expect this out of HTC. This post isn't directed at you Sarah but merely my G2 and thousands of others crippled devices. If you could pass this and my prior message to someone higher up that might at least read it and think it over it would be greatly appreciated.
MY 2ND HTC REPLY
Thank you for contacting HTC Technical Assistance Center. I do understand your desire to fully explore the G2’s potential. Let me try and address your concerns one by one. In regards to your request for source code, HTC will typically publish on developer.htc the Kernel open source code for recently released devices. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community. As for your concerns about the internal memory space, the space listed on the box and in advertisements is the total storage capacity of the phone, and in fact does exist in the phone. The majority of the space is being used to make sure your phone is running at optimal performance levels. If you require more space, you can use the provided SD Card to add media and other files. Our SD card reader can support up to 16gb of extended storage. Try and look at it along the lines of your computer. Just because on a floppy disk you had 1.44 mb of space didn’t ever mean you could use all that. There was always an amount of space you could never use. This is true for any computer type related device with storage. Big or small there’s always an amount of “floating” space needed. At this point we will be happy to document your concern with the current release state of the phone. Your concerns are being forwarded to the proper departments. Beyond the information provided, however, we would have nothing additional to release
MY 3RD HTC MESSAGE
Ummm. The reply on the 1.44mb floppy is just crazy out of bounds. Yes I understand that if I install a 1tb drive on my computer some 100mb's or so may be floating but not 500 gigs of my drive!!! You guys commandeered over HALF of the internal storage of the G2. That's just crazy. Also on the (right?) that you have to release the source code in 90-120 days.... Who made up that number? Certainly not the GPL you are supposed to adhere to. An excerpt from freedom-to-tinker talking about the G2 source code. "Perhaps HTC (and T-Mobile, distributor of the phone) should review the actual contents of the GNU Public License (v2), which stipulate the legal requirements for modifying and redistributing Linux. They state that you may only distribute derivative code if you accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code." Notably, there is no mention of a "grace period" or the like. The importance of redistributing source code in a timely fashion goes beyond enabling phone rooting. It is the foundation of the "copyleft" regime of software licensing that has led to the flourishing of the open source software ecosystem. If every useful modification required waiting 90 to 120 days to be built upon, it would have taken eons to get to where we are today. It's one thing for a company to choose to pursue the closed-source model and to start from scratch, but it's another thing for it to profit from the goodwill of the open source community while imposing arbitrary and illegal restrictions on the code." Please release the code. =)
MY 3RD HTC REPLY
I understand how this can be frustrating for you. To start, we are aware of a situation where the phone is not properly reflecting the correct amount of storage available on the device and we are working with T-Mobile to figure out why this is happening and how to resolve it. I appreciate your patience with it. Next, we provide a timeframe of 90-120 days for the release of the source code as a courtesy for our customer. Unfortunately, HTC Technical Support has no control over what is or is not published on our website and we can only forward the requests to our software developement team and website administrator. The code will be released and when it is you may find it on our developer website. Unfortuantely, my office only handles the technical troubleshooting of our devices stock software and hardware. I do apologize for any inconvenience that you may have experienced through this.
I SMELL WEAK SAUCE ALL OVER THIS!!!!

Are you emailing HTC America about this? Not sure what you think that will accomplish given that none of their low level engineering is done in the US. Also, what's with the rage over root? Did the labelling on your G2 box promise root or bootloader access? I thought we all went into this with the assumption this would be a consumer device and as such was fair game for any sort of anti-cracking protection.

It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."

simobile said:
It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmfaooooooooooo i died reading this man hahahahahaha im in tears man. but that is true tho. what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne " this shows that htc aint that bad but this still sucks, for now. two things lead me to believe that its gonna get rooted permanently:
1: this phone is bound to have updates which obviously isnt the stock that the phone came with. if this was a computer chip or whatever then any phone that comes with it wont recieve any updates because it will return to original way it came in the box right?
2: it will be really pointless releasing the source code if it wouldnt help with the rooting.
im not the best when it comes with source codes and rooting, im just thinking out loud is all. feel free to correct me.

Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.

what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree that I was also shocked that they were actually responding to my messages instead of some generic corportate bs. So I do give them Kudos for that.
Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is kinda what I envisioned for this thread. You could share your experiences with HTC or Tmobile if you have already contacted them and If you haven't hopefully it would prompt you too. I would like them to come out in November and say that that 90% of device complaint calls / emails were from the G2. Unrealistic I know but I can dream.

... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.

I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

Ditto
Jorsher said:
I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second that!

shograt said:
... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right about android being apache, that's why they can have closed source things like sense. HOWEVER the kernel is infact a moddified linux kernel, which in fact falls under GPLv2. According to the GPL violations angency has stated that they are infact in viaolation.
And simobile glad you started this thread, seems people were more concerned with my grammer the the problem at hand here...

Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.

SuperDave81 said:
Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As someone who gives his hard earned money to HTC, how does he not have the right to ask them whatever he wants? If they don't respond, or blow him off, it'll turn a lot of us off HTC.
He isn't ruining anything other than your little bubble which I'm pretty sure no one else cares about.

One thing about their reply - they said the microSD card was max 16 gb. Whatever happened to the 32gb their other phones can read? Was this an error by customer services?

I know there is quite a few holes in the responses they gave me... 16gb vs 32gb, a bug that tmob and them are working on to fix missing memory? Quite odd indeed. Despite all those things I would urge everyone to send them a message and please post responses here. I'd like this to stay topical and not become a "oh I have a me too trolling comment in my head so let me reply" So please go to the link below and shoot them a message if you have a complaint about all this. The more people that do the better chance we won't have to sit back and wait 90-120 days for this source. It's super simple and they seem to respond pretty quick.
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx

Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.

Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.

simobile said:
Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, wtf?

Funny how when a post doesn't adhere to the topic at hand it makes people go WTF? Now ask yourself did your post have anything to do with the topic of this thread? Or anything to do with the want to modify or dev a device?

SuperFly03 said:
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, I spend $500 on a new phone, and I can't even count on the stupid thing to stay running through the day? Yeah, I'd consider that something to be pissed about. I've owned many HTC devices over the years, and have bought most of them outright in the release week. NEVER have I had one with as many issues as the G2. I took it back today, and told them even if they fix all these issues (screen, memory, random reboots and lockups, and trackpad spazzing out) I doubt I'd pick another one up.
I've got a funny feeling, that some of these issues tie directly into the locking down of rooting on this phone as well... Whether it be technical, or they just wasted all their time locking it down rather than doing some basic Q&A, it's a pretty big issue.
So yeah, I don't advise you coming in here and telling people that it is no big deal that a device that costs as much as a new laptop doesn't work worth ****.

SuperFly03 said:
Ummm, wtf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, just saw this. WTF are you doing on XDA if you don't want to mod your device?

… still no solution for the bootloader, what does it mean

… still no official solution for bootloader, what does it mean
Motorola promised to offer a way:
> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278
the told us we have to wait:
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45249?tstart=30
Christy Wyatt (Motorola board member) talked about the advantages of android:
“I don’t envision us using Microsoft. I would never say never but it’s not something we’re entertaining now,” said Wyatt. The company proudly boasts of being 100% committed to Android and believes that Microsoft’s “closed” OS prevents them from “creating unique value”.
> http://windowsphonemix.com/tag/christy-wyatt-motorola/
good vibes on engadget (xoom):
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/22/motorola-bucks-its-own-trend-leaves-xoom-bootloader-unlockable/
bad vibes on xda.developers.com (atrix):
> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/update-on-the-atrix-root-signed-motorola/
but we are waiting, and I am going to be very very disappointed … maybe Motorola wants to get in another milestone chaos, like in europe
xoom bootloader: 1.6mil google entrys
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&biw=82...oader&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&fp=304b8f44479ccdc
atrix bootloader: 2.2mil google entrys
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&biw=82...tloader&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=304b8f44479ccdc

So ....
Any news on this? Where is Motorola's solution?

Uuh... i think it means that the phone has been out for barely a month (which i find odd that you link to a "promise" made by Motorola back in January about a bootloader solution.... and even then they said that more details will be available when they get closer to availability. SO.... my guess is they probably don't want to talk about it right now. Like i say about a lot of things... i'd rather hear nothing at all for a while and then get a definite date, than hear something now and have it delayed and delayed.

elementaldragon said:
Uuh... i think it means that the phone has been out for barely a month (which i find odd that you link to a "promise" made by Motorola back in January about a bootloader solution.... and even then they said that more details will be available when they get closer to availability. SO.... my guess is they probably don't want to talk about it right now. Like i say about a lot of things... i'd rather hear nothing at all for a while and then get a definite date, than hear something now and have it delayed and delayed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GT5?
aaaaaaaaanyways I just want to know if motorola is actually planning on doing this or if they have forgotten all intentions. Also Sony just decided to unlock the bootloaders so hopefully motorola follows them.

Add the Forbes article by Eric savitz
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

sdlopez83 said:
Add the Forbes article by Eric savitz
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with what we are talking about?

Think he's talking about that one that's been posted in a few threads about AT&T as well as possibly other carriers shutting down both voice and data services on phones detected to be rooted/jailbroken.... which unless the person doing so is doing something like a free tethering app and seriously hogging their network, i doubt AT&T or any other carrier would touch with someone elses 30-foot pole. That is unless they want some lawsuits on their hands.
still.... rather irrelevant.

meta96 said:
… still no official solution for bootloader, what does it mean?
Christy Wyatt (Motorola board member) talked about the advantages of android:
“I don’t envision us using Microsoft. I would never say never but it’s not something we’re entertaining now,” said Wyatt. The company proudly boasts of being 100% committed to Android and believes that Microsoft’s “closed” OS prevents them from “creating unique value”.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read this as "There's no way Microsoft would let us put a linux built webtop which they receive no licensing fees for on a phone alongside their WP7 OS."
Which doesn't mean they support Android being open, they just oppose paying someone for an OS. Android is just a convenient free option and locking it down costs less than developing their own proprietary OS, as well as offering a large pre-established App development base which their proprietary OS could never hope to attract. For instance Webtop apps would be sweet...but I'm not expecting any in the foreseeable future.

Long shot... but i started a we the people white house petition

If you wanna pass this along maybe we can get the President's advisors to actually talk about it.
http://wh.gov/VfI8
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

You should change the title to make it clear what the petition is supposed to accomplish. It might get more readership. Aside from that and some wording suggestions in the petition itself, i do agree.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

Can't modify once its started. D'oh!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

justflorin said:
Can't modify once its started. D'oh!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man... they won't even let you change "aloud" to "allowed". That blows.

Lol yeah I know...stupid auto correct
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Yeah it is like white house doesn't have anything else to deal with. Better send a petition to UNICEF for those who were left orphan by motorola.

You probably can't change the petition because certain people and groups would exploit that as a way to get people to sign a petition who would not otherwise support it if they knew the true intent.
Semseddin said:
Yeah it is like white house doesn't have anything else to deal with. Better send a petition to UNICEF for those who were left orphan by motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of worse petitions on there.

lehjr said:
There are plenty of worse petitions on there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't justify compounding the problem.

smokesignals said:
That doesn't justify compounding the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does it compound the problem if the petition is for a real world issue with real world consequences instead of some delusional fantasy as is the case with many of the others? The petition in this case is using the site as intended.

lehjr said:
How does it compound the problem if the petition is for a real world issue with real world consequences instead of some delusional fantasy as is the case with many of the others? The petition in this case is using the site as intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While it is a real world problem it really isn't in the scope of lawmakers. This is more of a company policy problem. The carriers are following local laws and FTC guidelines. It just happens that the money the carriers throw at governments writes these laws.
By targeting a specific industry the petition is less likely to gain traction. Targeting multiple industries with a more general petition about the freedom to use your property as you wish, or a petition to reduce corporate influence from the government would draw more attention.
Of course this still doesn't affect me since I'm not an American.

Hikikomorikruge said:
While it is a real world problem it really isn't in the scope of lawmakers. This is more of a company policy problem. The carriers are following local laws and FTC guidelines. It just happens that the money the carriers throw at governments writes these laws.
By targeting a specific industry the petition is less likely to gain traction. Targeting multiple industries with a more general petition about the freedom to use your property as you wish, or a petition to reduce corporate influence from the government would draw more attention.
Of course this still doesn't affect me since I'm not an American.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem of it being illegal to unlock your phone is actually limited to a specific industry and having broader range definitions don't always work, not to mention that it's hard enough to keep the laws and regulations current with the technology.
As far as petitions to limit corporate influence, that in itself is impossible on several levels. For one, there's "Citizens United" where thanks to "corporate personhood", corporations can spend unlimited sums of money on political contributions because doing is considered free speech. Then there are those members of our government with strong corporate ties, some of which have board member seats at one or more corporations.

lehjr said:
The problem of it being illegal to unlock your phone is actually limited to a specific industry and having broader range definitions don't always work, not to mention that it's hard enough to keep the laws and regulations current with the technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problematic law the makes it illegal to unlock your phone by circumventing some form of DRM is the DMCA. The DMCA makes it illegal to jail break an iphone, or just unlock the radio in an android phone so you can use it on another compatible carrier. Sadly this does not only effect the mobile phone industry. It makes it illegal to unlock any "locked" bootloader. This includes the PS3 (unlocking allows linux to run), original Xbox (allows XBMC to run), and almost all phones/tablets (to install new ROMs). This flaw in the DMCA has been used to prevent people from using the devices they own freely. Due to international treaties and the USA's supposed claim on many top level domains, this flaw has been allowed to spread to other countries.
Side note: Phone manufacturers (Motorla, Samsung, HTC, etc) aren't the main cause of locked bootloaders. The carriers are the ones who want and demand the locked bootloader. Since the manufacturers need the relationship (mostly because of subsidies and partly because carriers can refuse to allow phones to connect) they will comply with the wishes of the carriers.

Hikikomorikruge said:
The problematic law the makes it illegal to unlock your phone by circumventing some form of DRM is the DMCA. The DMCA makes it illegal to jail break an iphone, or just unlock the radio in an android phone so you can use it on another compatible carrier. Sadly this does not only effect the mobile phone industry. It makes it illegal to unlock any "locked" bootloader. This includes the PS3 (unlocking allows linux to run), original Xbox (allows XBMC to run), and almost all phones/tablets (to install new ROMs). This flaw in the DMCA has been used to prevent people from using the devices they own freely. Due to international treaties and the USA's supposed claim on many top level domains, this flaw has been allowed to spread to other countries.
Side note: Phone manufacturers (Motorla, Samsung, HTC, etc) aren't the main cause of locked bootloaders. The carriers are the ones who want and demand the locked bootloader. Since the manufacturers need the relationship (mostly because of subsidies and partly because carriers can refuse to allow phones to connect) they will comply with the wishes of the carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, "The legal shield for jailbreaking and rooting your phone remains up - it'll protect us at least through 2015."
source: https://www.eff.org/is-it-illegal-to-unlock-a-phone
I understand what you are saying, but it's tough enough to get the attention of lawmakers, it's an epic challenge to keep them interested long enough to do anything about it without spending disgusting sums of money.

So hold on its illegal to jailbreak an iPhone or unlock your android phone? I thought it just voids your warranty?! Edit: Nevermind didn't see that article there
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

lehjr said:
Actually, "The legal shield for jailbreaking and rooting your phone remains up - it'll protect us at least through 2015."
source: https://www.eff.org/is-it-illegal-to-unlock-a-phone
I understand what you are saying, but it's tough enough to get the attention of lawmakers, it's an epic challenge to keep them interested long enough to do anything about it without spending disgusting sums of money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh thank you for the link. I though all the phone related exemptions expired. While rooting is still protected, it was always a violation of the DMCA to "hack" a locked bootloader. Thankfully Motorola gave us the keys in 2011

balintmaci said:
5 that is five signatures as of now...
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only a few thousand more to go before it's given any consideration.

This should really be more about a general repeal of the DMCA and anti-circumvention than about phones specifically.
There is one petition already about it on the We the People site, but it won't let me post a link. Just search it for DMCA.

Hi everyone,
This petition (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7) is only 31,000+ from hitting 100k!
If we can get the xda community behind this we could easily hit this number!

Good luck, fingers crossed!

I think the petition hit the requirements!

since kindle fire phone is very similiar...

.... you think this will improve our tablets (thor and apollo) chances of getting more dev time. Specifically unlocking the bootloader. The kindle fire phone has pretty much the same hardware as our tablets so hopefully most tools dev'd for the phone can be ported our way and visa versa. heres to crossing our fingers :fingers-crossed:

gutts10 said:
.... you think this will improve our tablets (thor and apollo) chances of getting more dev time. Specifically unlocking the bootloader. The kindle fire phone has pretty much the same hardware as our tablets so hopefully most tools dev'd for the phone can be ported our way and visa versa. heres to crossing our fingers :fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bootloader on this device has already been unlocked. The devs just have not decided to release it. Hopefully that will change very soon and we can really make this tablet hum.

conan1600 said:
The bootloader on this device has already been unlocked. The devs just have not decided to release it. Hopefully that will change very soon and we can really make this tablet hum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seriously??? when did this happen?? and why would they not release it?

gutts10 said:
seriously??? when did this happen?? and why would they not release it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2760912&page=7 last page of this thread

conan1600 said:
I mean, with a bootloader unlock and cm or asop or pretty much any custom Rom I feel like this could potentially be the best tablet I've ever owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed 100%. best device on the market right now in terms of hardware. lets get this aosp up and running! im gonna refrain from unlocking my tablet till there's a stable rom out. hopefully that doesnt take too long.

gutts10 said:
agreed 100%. best device on the market right now in terms of hardware. lets get this aosp up and running! im gonna refrain from unlocking my tablet till there's a stable rom out. hopefully that doesnt take too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd do anything to get off that terrible thing they call FireOS right away.

EncryptedCurse said:
I'd do anything to get off that terrible thing they call FireOS right away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I hate it. It not something I want to get used to. Before I bought this kindle, I didn't plan on doing any kind of rooting or flashing of ROMs....until I played around with it.

EncryptedCurse said:
I'd do anything to get off that terrible thing they call FireOS right away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. But for now, we can only burn and wither in the FireOS fireplace. I can't wait to get Play Store, XPOSED, and Safestrap on this machine. I dream of AOSP.

Actually, if it were a phone, it would already be available to the general public.
What some of you may not understand is that the DMCA & more specifically, the LOC exceptions specifically INCLUDE cell phones. Unfortunately, they also very specifically EXCLUDED tablets from the exception. This makes it a crime to unlock the bootloaders on tablet devices. It can actually be pretty serious & aside from any damages that could be potentially awarded via civil action, the fines on the criminal side can be as much as $500,000.00 USD & can also include up to two years imprisonment.
While it likely wouldn't happen, if you happened to do something else that either the government or a manufacturer didn't like, that looms over your head.
The saddest part of this is that there was a "we the people" petition for both cell phones & tablets. The cell phone one acquired the number of signatures required to elicit a White House response, while the tablet petition expired well short of reaching the required number. Until the laws are changed by the legislation, or the new exceptions are released to include tablets, IN 2018, there is very little that can be done.

GSLEON3 said:
Actually, if it were a phone, it would already be available to the general public.
What some of you may not understand is that the DMCA & more specifically, the LOC exceptions specifically INCLUDE cell phones. Unfortunately, they also very specifically EXCLUDED tablets from the exception. This makes it a crime to unlock the bootloaders on tablet devices. It can actually be pretty serious & aside from any damages that could be potentially awarded via civil action, the fines on the criminal side can be as much as $500,000.00 USD & can also include up to two years imprisonment.
While it likely wouldn't happen, if you happened to do something else that either the government or a manufacturer didn't like, that looms over your head.
The saddest part of this is that there was a "we the people" petition for both cell phones & tablets. The cell phone one acquired the number of signatures required to elicit a White House response, while the tablet petition expired well short of reaching the required number. Until the laws are changed by the legislation, or the new exceptions are released to include tablets, IN 2018, there is very little that can be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I didn't know that. I just did some interesting reading. So I'm assuming this is the reason the bootloader unlock hasn't been released yet. Does this mean it won't ever be released, or is there a way around it?

S_transform said:
Interesting, I didn't know that. I just did some interesting reading. So I'm assuming this is the reason the bootloader unlock hasn't been released yet. Does this mean it won't ever be released, or is there a way around it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd think it's more so of a lacking community. From what I've seen, there's a very limited amount of competent developers capable of even attempting to unlock the bootloader.

Umm From what I understand it is already done.. For the tablets anyway. It just hasn't been released but I am confused on what was said in an earlier [email protected] GSLEON3 If they were going to sue anybody why wasn't anybody's sued when they cracked the HD or the Nook color?

GSLEON3 said:
Actually, if it were a phone, it would already be available to the general public.
What some of you may not understand is that the DMCA & more specifically, the LOC exceptions specifically INCLUDE cell phones. Unfortunately, they also very specifically EXCLUDED tablets from the exception. This makes it a crime to unlock the bootloaders on tablet devices. It can actually be pretty serious & aside from any damages that could be potentially awarded via civil action, the fines on the criminal side can be as much as $500,000.00 USD & can also include up to two years imprisonment.
While it likely wouldn't happen, if you happened to do something else that either the government or a manufacturer didn't like, that looms over your head.
The saddest part of this is that there was a "we the people" petition for both cell phones & tablets. The cell phone one acquired the number of signatures required to elicit a White House response, while the tablet petition expired well short of reaching the required number. Until the laws are changed by the legislation, or the new exceptions are released to include tablets, IN 2018, there is very little that can be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...Because nothing has ever been put on the internet anonymously before

GSLEON3 said:
Actually, if it were a phone, it would already be available to the general public.
What some of you may not understand is that the DMCA & more specifically, the LOC exceptions specifically INCLUDE cell phones. Unfortunately, they also very specifically EXCLUDED tablets from the exception. This makes it a crime to unlock the bootloaders on tablet devices. It can actually be pretty serious & aside from any damages that could be potentially awarded via civil action, the fines on the criminal side can be as much as $500,000.00 USD & can also include up to two years imprisonment.
While it likely wouldn't happen, if you happened to do something else that either the government or a manufacturer didn't like, that looms over your head.
The saddest part of this is that there was a "we the people" petition for both cell phones & tablets. The cell phone one acquired the number of signatures required to elicit a White House response, while the tablet petition expired well short of reaching the required number. Until the laws are changed by the legislation, or the new exceptions are released to include tablets, IN 2018, there is very little that can be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually this info is very erroneous. There was no tablet exclusion period. Rather there was no tablet inclusion as they could not come to terms with a suitable definition of what makes a tablet. This battle has already and is still being fought. But your interpretation of the newly founded ruling is in error. Also you will need to understand your terms better. Carrier unlocking a cell phone without the carriers permission is still a crime until such time as the ruling is re visited, this ruling will be upheld for 3 years. Bootloader unlocking, root, and Roms are very much still legal, and actually protected under these new rules for cell phones. There is no law at all in the DMCA ruling for Tablets.
No case has come before courts pending bootloader unlocking on tablets and the law is a grey area as there was no inclusion NOR exclusion made by the DMCA. The DMCA also made it quite clear that they want the American people to be free to customize their phone as they see fit with bootloader unlocks and roms. This ruling also HAS NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on other countries so any unlock coming from any other country is not subject to prosecution even on the carrier unlock for the releasing developer. Simply put, for developers in America, tablets are not specifically protected under the law to be bootloader unlocked, rooted etc. As such a potential law suit could be brought against a developer however there is no legal precedent for a case of that nature. Therefore tablets are still in the same legal limbo that they have ALWAYS been in while phones are protected.
The outcome of a trial on a case such as this would imo be flimsy at best and could prove deadly to the AOSP however, therefore serving to work against Androids best interests. The fines you quoted do in fact go up to 500,000.00 however they are specifically for carrier unlocking NOT bootloader unlocking as no law pertains to it except that it is legal to perform that action on cell phones. Many people and tech blogs have made similarly mistaken conclusions as you have but they as far as I have seen did not make the mistake on fines. Here is an example of one tech who gets it mostly right. http://rescueroot.com/android/is-rooting-android-phones-and-tablets-legal/ . Law is an interesting thing and all laws are designed to be complex but in this case there is simply NO LAW in the DMCA ruling pertaining to tablets.
This ABC article has a pdf with the actual DMCA ruling as well as a write up. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/now-illegal-unlock-cellphone/story?id=18319518

EncryptedCurse said:
I'd think it's more so of a lacking community. From what I've seen, there's a very limited amount of competent developers capable of even attempting to unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its already been cracked. they have been quoted as saying that they are having trouble implementing it. what that means? i dont know but it could mean they are having trouble monetizing it ($25 per crack is what i heard) or they are having trouble with the actual code of the crack. either way, the crack is official as per some people on these boards that have more cred than me.

conan1600 said:
Actually this info is very erroneous. There was no tablet exclusion period. Rather there was no tablet inclusion as they could not come to terms with a suitable definition of what makes a tablet. This battle has already and is still being fought. But your interpretation of the newly founded ruling is in error. Also you will need to understand your terms better. Carrier unlocking a cell phone without the carriers permission is still a crime until such time as the ruling is re visited, this ruling will be upheld for 3 years. Bootloader unlocking, root, and Roms are very much still legal, and actually protected under these new rules for cell phones. There is no law at all in the DMCA ruling for Tablets.
No case has come before courts pending bootloader unlocking on tablets and the law is a grey area as there was no inclusion NOR exclusion made by the DMCA. The DMCA also made it quite clear that they want the American people to be free to customize their phone as they see fit with bootloader unlocks and roms. This ruling also HAS NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on other countries so any unlock coming from any other country is not subject to prosecution even on the carrier unlock for the releasing developer. Simply put, for developers in America, tablets are not specifically protected under the law to be bootloader unlocked, rooted etc. As such a potential law suit could be brought against a developer however there is no legal precedent for a case of that nature. Therefore tablets are still in the same legal limbo that they have ALWAYS been in while phones are protected.
The outcome of a trial on a case such as this would imo be flimsy at best and could prove deadly to the AOSP however, therefore serving to work against Androids best interests. The fines you quoted do in fact go up to 500,000.00 however they are specifically for carrier unlocking NOT bootloader unlocking as no law pertains to it except that it is legal to perform that action on cell phones. Many people and tech blogs have made similarly mistaken conclusions as you have but they as far as I have seen did not make the mistake on fines. Here is an example of one tech who gets it mostly right. http://rescueroot.com/android/is-rooting-android-phones-and-tablets-legal/ . Law is an interesting thing and all laws are designed to be complex but in this case there is simply NO LAW in the DMCA ruling pertaining to tablets.
This ABC article has a pdf with the actual DMCA ruling as well as a write up. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/now-illegal-unlock-cellphone/story?id=18319518
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever, I NEVER said there was a tablet exclusion. What I said was tablet were very specifiaclly EXCLUDED, which they were because they found the term "tablet" to be too open to interpretation & too widely encompassing.
There are still other issues that can come into play in regards to unlocking bootloaders, such as modifying other partitions or factors that play into operating a device with an invalid FCC grant (as simple as enabling frequencies not covered under the initial grant, or changing power levels), which is indeed a criminal offense, maybe not related to the DMCA (the act, not the group), but I'm still not sure that is entirely the case, since everything I have read essentially excludes anything not specifically addressed by the exemptions, although I certainly haven't read the entire text of the laws as my schedule hasn't permitted it & frankly, if I have the time to read, I highly doubt it will be legal text.
Regardless, you also have laws regarding bypassing digital locks (untested) & even the exemptions that do apply, they only apply to "where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability". You still have laws & treaties requiring possible action for possible circumvention of DRM (a big thing for a media distribution giant like Amazon), not to mention protection of IP & competitive secrets that may be protected by said digital locks. As many of these laws have never been tested in court, the only real opinion on the matter (a judge or justice in the US), has never been issued. Either way, I was just passing along the info that one of the devs that successfully unlocked the bootloader shared. Really, for me, it matters not anymore.
As to the 4 years, I was probably mistaken (something some people have no problem admitting), but I was under the impression it is revisited every three years, but not implemented until the following year.

GSLEON3 said:
Whatever, I NEVER said there was a tablet exclusion. What I said was tablet were very specifiaclly EXCLUDED, which they were because they found the term "tablet" to be too open to interpretation & too widely encompassing.
There are still other issues that can come into play in regards to unlocking bootloaders, such as modifying other partitions or factors that play into operating a device with an invalid FCC grant (as simple as enabling frequencies not covered under the initial grant, or changing power levels), which is indeed a criminal offense, maybe not related to the DMCA (the act, not the group), but I'm still not sure that is entirely the case, since everything I have read essentially excludes anything not specifically addressed by the exemptions, although I certainly haven't read the entire text of the laws as my schedule hasn't permitted it & frankly, if I have the time to read, I highly doubt it will be legal text.
Regardless, you also have laws regarding bypassing digital locks (untested) & even the exemptions that do apply, they only apply to "where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability". You still have laws & treaties requiring possible action for possible circumvention of DRM (a big thing for a media distribution giant like Amazon), not to mention protection of IP & competitive secrets that may be protected by said digital locks. As many of these laws have never been tested in court, the only real opinion on the matter (a judge or justice in the US), has never been issued. Either way, I was just passing along the info that one of the devs that successfully unlocked the bootloader shared. Really, for me, it matters not anymore.
As to the 4 years, I was probably mistaken (something some people have no problem admitting), but I was under the impression it is revisited every three years, but not implemented until the following year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So then I'm assuming this is affected by the bill passed literally today that reads:
"by adding at the end the following: ``It shall not be a violation of this section to circumvent a technological measure in connection with a work
protected under this title if the purpose of such circumvention is to engage in a use that is not an infringement of copyright under this title.''
As far as I know this does not apply solely to phones, and would apply to tablets and all electronics if I'm reading it correctly. For a link to the bill and the code of law:
bill:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
the current code:
https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/1892/text

GSLEON3 said:
Whatever, I NEVER said there was a tablet exclusion. What I said was tablet were very specifiaclly EXCLUDED, which they were because they found the term "tablet" to be too open to interpretation & too widely encompassing.
There are still other issues that can come into play in regards to unlocking bootloaders, such as modifying other partitions or factors that play into operating a device with an invalid FCC grant (as simple as enabling frequencies not covered under the initial grant, or changing power levels), which is indeed a criminal offense, maybe not related to the DMCA (the act, not the group), but I'm still not sure that is entirely the case, since everything I have read essentially excludes anything not specifically addressed by the exemptions, although I certainly haven't read the entire text of the laws as my schedule hasn't permitted it & frankly, if I have the time to read, I highly doubt it will be legal text.
Regardless, you also have laws regarding bypassing digital locks (untested) & even the exemptions that do apply, they only apply to "where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability". You still have laws & treaties requiring possible action for possible circumvention of DRM (a big thing for a media distribution giant like Amazon), not to mention protection of IP & competitive secrets that may be protected by said digital locks. As many of these laws have never been tested in court, the only real opinion on the matter (a judge or justice in the US), has never been issued. Either way, I was just passing along the info that one of the devs that successfully unlocked the bootloader shared. Really, for me, it matters not anymore.
As to the 4 years, I was probably mistaken (something some people have no problem admitting), but I was under the impression it is revisited every three years, but not implemented until the following year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh but you DID SAY. Furthermore to anyone who has an ounce of brain power everthing you just said in your sad attempt at face saving is garbage. I wont bother pointing out each completely ignorant thing as the level of incompetence is to high for me to waste further time educating you.

conan1600 said:
Oh but you DID SAY. Furthermore to anyone who has an ounce of brain power everthing you just said in your sad attempt at face saving is garbage. I wont bother pointing out each completely ignorant thing as the level of incompetence is to high for me to waste further time educating you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever, go read the law. I know exactly what I said. Why don't you go find someway of being productive instead of just trolling the forum?

GSLEON3 said:
Whatever, go read the law. I know exactly what I said. Why don't you go find someway of being productive instead of just trolling the forum?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When or if I decided to troll you I assure you there will be no doubt. In this case im merely correcting you. If in my educated corrections of your blather, I make you look stupid, or feel like a little boy getting a spanking from his daddy which makes you feel sad and angry then that is an unintended but wholly welcomed consequence that I can live with. Buddy, you dont want to quip with me, you're not nearly on the same level.