Database Users

No more Sense in WinPhone 7

Nordic business area manager for Windows Mobile said on his blogg that there will be no more Sense on a Windows phone 7 phone...
Translated from swedish to english with the help of google:
"There will be no Sense to HTC Windows Phone 7 Series phones. It is entirely a Microsoft-defined experience that HTC can add things to, but not changing how it works. It's totally fine."
here is the source http://wissinger.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/en-annorlunda-telefon-windows-phone-7-series/#comments its in swedish so translate it with the help of google....

It's not very surprising.
It's part of their brand awareness strategy. Same like the PC Windows 7 Starter edition, were changing wallpapers is blocked.
MS wants to push their new OS and separate themselves from the previous WinMo. Most of WinMo phones now, have custom UI to hide the uglyness of stock system. So releasing a new system and allowing custom UIs would go unnoticed to the average Joe.
I'm sure they will allow custom UIs after a certain period of time tho. It will also give companies designing custom UIs more time to implement the new features.

well ultimately...sense was supposed to cover microsofts ugly user interface...thats no longer necessary...
with that said...the weather animations are still nice and I hope HTC will somehow integrate them in winmo 7 and also the homescreen is simply something I'm used to...since the diamond...I can't imagine my phone looking different on home screen
but seriously, thats the only thing I miss about sense...other than that it was clear that sense won't survive...
it supports no widgets which sucks
its written in lua which nobody understands
you have to modify manila files which means if you have multiple modifications, you can't delete stuff anymore.
it has some very useless tabs, yet doesn't allow you to create own tabs with important stuff...who needs a footprint tab again?
so overall it was clear that sense wouldn't survive too long in the current concept...you see what HTC has done with android...I hope they will be doing some innovative stuff with winmo 7...mainly the main screen in sense is awesome and the weather animations.

Different WinMo 6.5 Version extra for HD2?

Hi Folks,
i know, we had this question several times before, but nobody asked this special question:
Is our WinMo 6.5 Version different to other Devices?
I remember the WM6.5 ROM from my beloved Blackstone. There was an Option to lock every Button except the power button to wake up my device. Know, in the actual WM6.5 version from my LEO, this point has gone.
I don´t believe that we have an extra written WM6.5 Version. So in fact there must be a way to get back this setting in WM-Settings menu.
Does anybody know where to change the registry, or if a WM-File is missing in our Device?

Candy-men said:
Hi Folks,
i know, we had this question several times before, but nobody asked this special question:
Is our WinMo 6.5 Version different to other Devices?
I remember the WM6.5 ROM from my beloved Blackstone. There was an Option to lock every Button except the power button to wake up my device. Know, in the actual WM6.5 version from my LEO, this point has gone.
I don´t believe that we have an extra written WM6.5 Version. So in fact there must be a way to get back this setting in WM-Settings menu.
Does anybody know where to change the registry, or if a WM-File is missing in our Device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes and no. at the CORE level, it is the SAME WM6.5 released by microsoft.
however, like any "good" OS meant to be for different devices (*cough* NOT iOS *cough*), microsoft allows a fair deal of customization/branding/tweaking by the vendor and/or end user.
thus, HTC has hacked it left and right to provide:
1. their own "Sense" interface and "manila SDK" (this SDK allows you to create apps that have snazzy looking sliders and checkboxes and better looking message boxes, etc)
2. their own pinch to zoom hooks
3. their own philosophy of what is available in the windows mobile settings. out of the box, the windows mobile settings are BLOCKED in entirety. similarly, the owner information section is hidden.
4. their own philosophy of which button(s) can wake the device. the previous "standard" for WM and HTC used to be a single dedicated button to wake the device. this particular point is also managed by the DRIVERS of the HD2 platform, so it is not JUST the version of WM that is preventing you from achieving full control on the buttons but also the drivers that matter a lot.
5. and many more!
the theme is that microsoft provides the CORE BUILD (indicated by the build number) and this usually includes new APIs and features under the hood while the vendor is often free to customize to a great extent. for developers, it is largely the CORE BUILD+native APIs and SDKs+.NET Framework+Third Party APIs and SDKs that matter. however, some of HTC's customizations do get in the way.

I know this might not be part of the question but I wonder if you can downgrade your HD2 to WM 6.1 or less and would it run faster since their more ram and memory.

Okey, thx for the fast answers...
I´m asking myself now if any cooks from the XDA-Devs can cook a ROM with this feature from WM6.5 ?
Is this possible?

You can see if Energy's Titanium ROM is what you want. I believe it completely strips Sense.
Energy ROM Thread

[Q] Some infos before flashing

Hey guys,
it's my first post here, but I'm still some days here in this board, consuming the contents for my HD2 with apreciation.
HD2 was and still is -hardwaresides- a milestone. When it comes up to the stock OS, there are some major things that I don't get. M*cr*s*fts OS is making this device a cripple, if you ask me. But that's another discussion and even more I was excited when I firstly saw a good friend these days holding me his Leo up the nose with Android embedded.
Now, I'd like to know some things before "flashing" my Leo - if you can say so, as the only thing to do seems to apply some kind of bootloader instaed of cleaning and rewriting the ROM. Which leads me to the
1. Will the installer overwrite the WM6.5 ROM or will it run in a dual-boot system?
2. Will a physical hardreset (volume-buttons) return to the stock-Rom?
3. Which of the local Froyo versions is the most stable with nearly all components working and - if possible - NO skin customizations except SENSE?
Thanks for your help and I hope that Android will bring my Leo to a whole new level.

Prepare yourself for a flaming of a lifetime.

Postaldude said:
Hey guys,
it's my first post here, but I'm still some days here in this board, consuming the contents for my HD2 with apreciation.
HD2 was and still is -hardwaresides- a milestone. When it comes up to the stock OS, there are some major things that I don't get. M*cr*s*fts OS is making this device a cripple, if you ask me. But that's another discussion and even more I was excited when I firstly saw a good friend these days holding me his Leo up the nose with Android embedded.
Now, I'd like to know some things before "flashing" my Leo - if you can say so, as the only thing to do seems to apply some kind of bootloader instaed of cleaning and rewriting the ROM. Which leads me to the
1. Will the installer overwrite the WM6.5 ROM or will it run in a dual-boot system?
2. Will a physical hardreset (volume-buttons) return to the stock-Rom?
3. Which of the local Froyo versions is the most stable with nearly all components working and - if possible - NO skin customizations except SENSE?
Thanks for your help and I hope that Android will bring my Leo to a whole new level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, why are you afraid to spell out Microsoft?
Second, Winmo didn't cripple HD2 at all, you have fully function phone.
Now, if you put Android on this phone, this make HD2 a cripple phone.
To answer your questions
1. No, Android will not overwrite the wm 6.5 rom, it need wm to run and it runs from sd card.
2. see #1, it will not alter wm rom, wm will be wm after reboot, you dont need to hardset.
3. This is like... personal preference, you have to try to see which build is for you.
the core here is kernel, if you try this build and you have problem, and you see another the build with the same kernel, it likely not going to fix your problem.

justwonder said:
First of all, why are you afraid to spell out Microsoft?
Second, Winmo didn't cripple HD2 at all, you have fully function phone.
Now, if you put Android on this phone, this make HD2 a cripple phone.
To answer your questions
1. No, Android will not overwrite the wm 6.5 rom, it need wm to run and it runs from sd card.
2. see #1, it will not alter wm rom, wm will be wm after reboot, you dont need to hardset.
3. This is like... personal preference, you have to try to see which build is for you.
the core here is kernel, if you try this build and you have problem, and you see another the build with the same kernel, it likely not going to fix your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Why shouldn't I? There are enough examples, that anonymity is not given in every way these days on the web...
2. No, it did run well. But it
-isn't nearly as smooth as the iPhone-OS or Android
-HTC Sense seems to stuck several times with WM 6.5, which brings me to conclusion that HTC wasn't allowed to create a consequent GUI without corrupting MS license restrictions
-Browsers (Stock Opera, Opera 10, Opera Mini, Skyfire) are really slow
-I got a bunch of crashes even with updated stock ROMs and CF 3.5 installed
-the response between OS and touchscreen is still very laggy which results in the over-sensibility and the so-called ghost-effect, when the screenkeys begin jerking out/ the screen is working commands that had been given more than a minute along
-pinch-to-zoom only seems to be a gimmick clearly running in the SENSE environment and apps based upon it. The WM GUI isn't compatible to it in many ways
- and most important, it still is giving me white knuckles that MS at last decided to make WMP 7 NOT available, needless to say, AFTER several Leos were sold with prediction for WMP 7 being available sooner or later
Sure, you got a working OS for everydays use, but it is as unattractive and as imperformant as it could be the day it came on such a steroidic device like the HD2. MS has epicly failed in giving attention to the mobile phone market, that's for sure. It isn't done with borderless synchonization of Outlook e-mail and contacts - because todays smartphones are capabale of so much more. For something like this, you don't need a 1 GHz Snapdragon, together with 512 MB systemmemory. And after making such hard license restrictions for developers that are in charge to use WMP7, I think this won't ever change.
And sure, you're able to customize this OS as far as you want. But take the usual Jon Doe, excited by HD2-Ads and offended by an OS, that feels and looks like it is 10 years old under the SENSE-surface, with an app-catalogue that's growing slower and slower. And Jon Doe's not the man to deal with custom roms and tweaks.
Now take Android on the other hand. Based on the Linux-Kernel, which is known to give you every possible freedom, together with every possible brick to handle - which you're able to fix by yourself and what makes it attractive mostly for enthusiastics - it's a good blend of functionality ergonomics/ease-of-use. These two words together exclamated each other more or less in the past and this is one of the reasons, why Linux as a desktop-system hasn't become more popular over the years of development. Besides this, linux distributions are the fastest and most stable running OS I ever used on a PC. Now, Android is in charge and able to become as popular as MS is on desktop-systems, because it's working good. Most of the start-up problems that occured on early Droids are eliminated, this phone-OS becomes more and more performant. And it seems to be a lot more flexible than any other phone-OS
Finally, this discussion turned right the way i thought it would end. I'd like to thank you all for your information at first. If you'd like to make further dialogue affecting the goods and bads of WM, please contact me PM.

will we see WM7 for HTC HD soon ?

Will we see WM7 for HTC HD very soon ?
Will it work on our beloved HD ?

Not officially and to be honest, it'll be aimed at much quicker hardware than the Blackstone. That's not to say the chefs can't work miracles... but by the time the "bits" are available to cook something up, most of the people here will be onto their next handset.

You never know...
But there are several software reasons why I will not see it EVER on my HD... or any of my other phones...
As was written on one well known website:
* No system-wide file manager
* No videocalling (I don't use it so far, but...)
* Limited third-party apps availability
* No Bluetooth file transfers
* No USB mass storage mode
* No multitasking
* No copy/paste
* Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
* No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
* No DivX/XviD video support
* No internet tethering support
And finally, I agree about hardware requests WM7 is requiring... Too much for my taste...

The changes made to this new operating system for the mobiles (Windows Mobile 7 or WM7) are so radical and so tightly connected to the specific hardware Ithat MS required from the manufacturers) that it will be hard to port this OS to older devices with different hardware.
It is in no way like the transition from WM5 to WM6.1 or from WM6.1 to WM6.5. In those cases, the hardware was the same and the only thing changing was the OS, the software. Now, MS required specific hardware in order to have this new OS working (like the 3-button layout, specific camera attributes etc.).
I believe that it may be partly ported to older devices as well, but with severe limitations (e.g. camera not working, networking problems etc), more or less like the Android port to WM devices...
So I believe that we will not see the WM7 in our HDs... and it may be better this way.

MOD EDIT - Moved to General discussion forum

NO, never going to happen. The Blackstone can't run it. I wish it could too but all you have to do is read http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649909 to find out why not..

what is the pasymist

ctoicho said:
what is the pasymist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not pessimism, it's a fact. Sorry.

Hi all, i'm new in blackstone section Few months just reading hole the forum, and think it's great.
About WM7 i think that Microsoft make so radical changes because of end users. It's true that till that WM OS where too difficult for end users.
Easier OS -> many stupid clients-> More money
Don't you think?

dilqnski said:
Easier OS -> many stupid clients-> More money
Don't you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do
................

Lolz
MS and HTC will force those who wants WM7 to purchase a new hadnset.
No commercial benefits for HTC to provide WM7 upgrade for existing WM6.1/6.5/6.5.x handsets.
.
.
Honestly I like WM6.5.x anyway so im thinking of keeping my TOUCH HD and storing up a HD2.
.
.
By the way porting WM7 to HD2 would be like porting Androids to TOUCH HD and HD2. Not everything will work. More like proving a point that these devices could run it but not to the full potential.
.
.

Helpp Needed !!!! :)

hey there guys.,
i got a new Samsung B6520 Omnia Pro 5 ( running Windows Standard 6.5) a couple of days back.
It's basically a non touch phone( 320 x 240 pixels, 2.4 inches, QWERTY) and I'm looking for apps / themes/ and stuff in general for my phone.
i tried looking around the forum, but in vain.. so somebody Plzzzzz help...!!
i really think i made a mistake getting a WinMo
~Hbk~

Return it......... get an Android based phone the problem with the 6.5 it will not update to win7 so this op system is a dead horse. Sorry but yes you did make a mistake.

If you were going WM then you should have gotten a touch screen phone, there are loads of themes etc to try, or you could have installed SPB MS3.5 and had the best OS and interface a business/general use phone can have at the moment.
If you wanted games though, as oka1 said, android is better suited while still managing to be an ok business phone (htc sense makes this better I've found)

From an applications developer's point of view, programming for WinMo Standard can be a bit of a pain. You have to decide whether or not your program is going to run on it, or not, at design time. It may end up as a completely different release of the program.
Having said that, it is possible to make a single .exe run on both WinMo Professional and Standard, but the program has to look at which platform it is running on, and then behave accordingly. On WinMo Standard, there is no Touchscreen/Mouseclick input, only the keyboard and the D-Pad/Enter buttons. The interface has to be designed to work with both from the outset, or both interfaces must be included in the same program, then it decides and uses the correct one at runtime.
It can be done but it is a lot of extra effort. As an example try the 5x5 or Peg Solitaire puzzles in the signature below.

thanks for the inputs guys
i really wish some one could just write a program to port android onto a windows phone keeping in mind the hardware changes too. ..
But my question is, " When we are seamlessly able to install / un-install OS's on our desktops/ laptops, why not on a mobile phone?!"
I REALLY think mobile phone manufacturers should give the consumers that flexibility to chose what OS they'd want running on their devices. .
Who knows?! maybe they'd think on these lines in the future perhaps?
~Hbk~

Get a HTC HD2, it can run WM, WP7 (why you'd want to I don't know), Android, Win95, Win98, Ubuntu and a few others.

ya get HTC its awesome machine and it also works on each and every window whatever it is window vista or whatever it window 7.. ya YOu made a mistake but now dont waste time if you want winpro

I really hope some philanthropic people come forward and donate what ever they can..
Coz i really can't afford an Android right now..
I shall officially kick start "Project Andriod 2.2" A Donation Drive to help people who are stuck with symbian/winmo and want a serious upgrade to ANDROID..
~HbK~

I shall post the default/original wallpapers of Samsung B6520 Omnia here in this thread later..