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Why can't HTC put 1Gb of onboard RAM onto their devices ??

I am probably being naive here but with SD card prices so low now ....I cant understand why mobile manufacturers wont provide their devices with a "useable" capacity of memory .....
Or is the RAM memory very differant to SD memory ???
Is their a possibility of maybe in the near future, HTC launching a device with say a full gigabyte of onboard RAM ???

Yep, RAM is more expensive than ROM. By the way, this needs space which you just haven't in the Magician. It would also be too expensive, since a 1 GB card costs around 100 €, which is far too expensive for a manufacturer of these devices. Besides that, the magician is quite cheap in my opinion.

Dandie,
i think if i-mate provides us with the range of devices all would be happy and decide what to buy. e.g.:
-basic configuration - 64mb ram
-advanced conf - 64mb ram +512mb built in sd
-extreme 64mb ram +2gb built in sd
or whatever else breakdown is feasible or optimal. the price would respectively warry e.g. +$50; +$200.
i also don't see a problem to fit SD chip to device - its much smaller without body
it is also related to all device manufacturers. Since few of manufacturers do it i see some reasons for it:
1. low probable but: sd patent owners do not want to go for built in option or ask too much for it (but i know that some of the phone manufacturers already started production of the devices with build in miniSD chip);
2. it is not profitable or worthwhile from the marketing point of view;
3. I heard a lot from, people that SD cards are not very much reliable, sometimes it looses data, sometimes brokes. Thus it used for temporary storage purposes and nobody wants to take a risk with loosing your data…
4. and last but not least: they all are stupid and we here the only Einsteins who invented such simple way to increase memory

Although I have a 1GB SD Card in my JAM, I wouldn't want it to be built in. I'd rather take it out and put it in my card reader (USB 2.0) especially for transferring that 170MB DIVX file!
And what about those situations where you just give your SD card to your friend to copy stuff over and then back in your JAM?
And what about those situations where you just plug in your digi cam's SD card and have a quick view at the pics taken?

KTA,
nobody says "we want to replace external SD with built-in one" we say that we want to have both options: (i) BIG internal storage and (ii) SD/MMC slot for card.
internal storage would be used to keep our garbage on and forget about memory limit problems. And external for exchanging data with others, to move high-capacity data in and out and whatever else you want to use it for...
I never seen a person complaining on big HDD
Let people have an option!!!

Just guessing - but wouldn't there be an increase in power consumption with an increase in volatile memory?
Maybe the reason there is no 1gb RAM option in the PDA world today is that the battery life would be like 1 hour.

Mark One said:
Just guessing - but wouldn't there be an increase in power consumption with an increase in volatile memory?
Maybe the reason there is no 1gb RAM option in the PDA world today is that the battery life would be like 1 hour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*BINGO* you got the answer right... :wink:
- $
- Battery life...
- OS Stability with bigger memory...
- Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce...
The rest is history...

xirc0m, Mark One,
DAMN WRONG !!!!
* Question of money is not discussed since people want to have extra memory and ready to pay reasonably. Again, I assume several options to fit every pocket. Don’t want extra memory – buy basic version.
*Do you have increased consumption with SD card inserted? Then why it should be with built in sd card?
* OS Stability with bigger memory… guys, if I have 100gb harddrive and you have 30gb does it mean that os stability is much lower in my case? I doubt
*Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce... SPEED would remain the same! But if you want to access built-in storage then you’ll get the speed of sd card
let me reiterate again. The whole idea is to have one big sd card built-in and have another slot for external card. There is still may be fast RAM as usual devices have

I suspect the main one is battery life; unlike SD card, which uses flash memory, which does not require power to maintain its content, the device's RAM needs constant power to maintain its content; that's why when your battery goes dead, your card content is still there, but not your main memory. You may then ask why not use flash for main memory? That's because Flash has a limited number of writes (although for most people it's virtually limitless now), and is slower.

Did you see pictures of the PCB? There is just no space left for more/bigger chips. The only thing you can do is replace the current chips with ones of the same size but more memory. These are expensive. Adding another slot inside the case wouldn't really help, since you still need space for the socket and there would be another sensitive part with not soldered contacts. I guess devices with up to 512 MB ROM built in exist already but they are bigger than the Magician. Don't forget: The magician was the smallest PPC available when it was released. It even had the phone built in. Trust me: There is no space left. The SD-RAM memory upgrade availble is done by exchanging the current chip and the price of 200 € tells you that 1 GB is just not realistic. Even though Flash-ROM is cheaper, it would increase the price to about double i think (don't forget, the end customer price always is a lot higher than the manufacturing costs - at least double the price I'd say) - not really interesting.
So - wait for fast 2 GB SD cards to be released (I'm still waiting for my Sandisk Ultra 2GB for almost 6 months now) and there you have your 2 GB ...

Why not to solder chip on the circuit board then? No contacts, no connectors, just chip. Sure, there is no space now. But don’t forget that when circuit board was designed all components were distributed proportionally to cover all board. If you add new stuff – you redesign it and tighten components. It only seems that no more room.
I also agree that built-in sd price would be different from external sd. Again, 1gb, 2gb, 8gb – this is just talks; we discuss the idea on having chip flash memory built-in.

Well, there is a flash ROM chip built in, as you know. It has 64 MB and is used for the Storage, the Ext_ROM and the OS. There is an upgrade available that makes it 128 MB ROM - 200 bucks! And also, I don't agree with you saying theres enough space left on the Magician. There is no space left at all! This device is one of the most compact electronic devices on the market. There is not enough space for one single additional chip. You have to wait for either the other or the memory chips to decrease in size and/or increase in features/capacity/speed (what they do). The next device probably will have more RAM, more ROM - but not 1GB. That's for certain.

avyshnya said:
KTA,
I never seen a person complaining on big HDD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using your HDD example, I thought the issue here was not the size of the "HDD" but whether the HDD is internal or external.
Can you imagine HTC with 3 different production lines, each with a different "embedded-SD" size? I don't think so ...

RAM goes against the whole quick standby capability of the device. I can suspend my handset into a minimal amount power consumption mode and then resume it right back to where it was before without any loading delay.
With RAM, I would have to hibernate any volatile information to a persistent store which takes both time and space. Otherwise I need to keep power applied the RAM while in suspend mode which costs me in battery life. Neither of these options are very attractive.
Plus a RAM store is yet another memory store to juggle. The OS would have to be modified to use it and I already have enough stores between main menory and the expansion slot. I shouldn't need to juggle another one. Finally, PCB real estate and battery load is limited so I don't want to add another memory controller or memory that needs constant recharging as RAM does.
Maybe increasing the cache on the processor is the way to go.

Dudes !!
You misunderstand my question !!
Yes I think having a removable SD Card is ESSENTIAL !!
I dont want to replace the external SD card with just an internal one !!
With 2Gb and 4Gb cards on the horizon - I dont think I would require much more storage (for the time being anyway!)
What I mean is .... would there be a possibility in the future of RAM prices dropping and sizes reducing - so that we could have a JAM type device with about 1Gb of RAM instead of the crappy 64Mb ???
What I HATE is having to worry about taking up too much of the measly 64Mb RAM which would then slow down and make the JAM unstable ..... I want to be able to install most/all of my "apps" into Main/Storage and then use my SD card for just Music, Movies, Games etc ....
Hopefully the RAM would be non-volatile so would remain even after a hard reset so no more need for constant Backups and re-installing etc !
1Gb Main/Storage Memory + 4Gb SD Card Memory = Perfect Device !!
It just seems crazy to me that Removable storage is reaching for the sky ..... but most of the time I have to be careful what/where I install programs on my device in case it slows down or becomes unstable ....
64Mb Ram + 2,4,8,16,32Gb SD Card = So Crazy It Makes Me Sick !!!
PS - I hear that JAM version 2 will have 128Mb RAM and built-in WIFI .... so there is room in there after all !!!

1GB RAM would indeed be nice, but that would be too expensive. The SD cards aren't made the same way. They're cheaper but slower. Even the Storage is a lot slower (which I found out by doing simple tests).
PS - I hear that JAM version 2 will have 128Mb RAM and built-in WIFI .... so there is room in there after all !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet that they will make it even smaller, because most of the parts in any device will get smaller over the time. When they developed the Magician there wasn't any room for anything more though.

Interesting article on the future of Flash Memory .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20041112/index.html

Dandie said:
Well, there is a flash ROM chip built in, as you know. It has 64 MB and is used for the Storage, the Ext_ROM and the OS. There is an upgrade available that makes it 128 MB ROM - 200 bucks! And also, I don't agree with you saying theres enough space left on the Magician. There is no space left at all! This device is one of the most compact electronic devices on the market. There is not enough space for one single additional chip. You have to wait for either the other or the memory chips to decrease in size and/or increase in features/capacity/speed (what they do). The next device probably will have more RAM, more ROM - but not 1GB. That's for certain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd gladly trade the cheapo toy-grade camera they shoehorned into this thing for a more appropriate amount of memory - anytime. That's for sure!

grrrrrr..
i think, another reason for not putting a 1gb a internal memory is because the phone still cant stand to have that large appilcation running.. it will surely always lockup if a total of 1gb load of applications you put in there. not to say + the another 1gb in external.

avyshnya said:
xirc0m, Mark One,
DAMN WRONG !!!!
* Question of money is not discussed since people want to have extra memory and ready to pay reasonably. Again, I assume several options to fit every pocket. Don’t want extra memory – buy basic version.
*Do you have increased consumption with SD card inserted? Then why it should be with built in sd card?
* OS Stability with bigger memory… guys, if I have 100gb harddrive and you have 30gb does it mean that os stability is much lower in my case? I doubt
*Speed of OS with Bigger memory will reduce... SPEED would remain the same! But if you want to access built-in storage then you’ll get the speed of sd card
let me reiterate again. The whole idea is to have one big sd card built-in and have another slot for external card. There is still may be fast RAM as usual devices have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yo...avyshnya,
Guess you have never work in a Mobile Phone / a PDA device company before...or have you done any R&D on this...
As I mention above still valids...
-$ , its all about Marketing issue...you are not looking at their point of view.... anything is possible the throw in the big chunk of memory...Technology is there...but they will not excute that so fast...
- Consume more Batt...yes it does with more memory...to your naked eye...you do not see it... if you seriously benchmark it you will realise it does...whether its external or internal memory
- Stablity on OS... still does... you are talkin about your PC...this is no PC...its PocketPC... sorry you are not benchmarking in correct terms...
- Speed... go n do a benchmark...you will see it yourself...

More RAM for G1, possible???

do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))

I believe you're thinking of Swap - check out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=531988

Also don't forget using your SD card as swap partition will thrash it and could shorten the life of your SD card due to alot of writes.
If you really want to do this look for a program called 'swapper'.

oh ok thanks for the heads up !

johnnie93 said:
do you know how windows vista can use external memory and make it into additional RAM? well can the G1 be programed to take memory from the SD-Card and turn it into more RAM?? I know that it might not work but its worth a check!
IF your not sure about it check this it will explain ((http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6039379.html))
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is pretty much the function the swap file provides. There is a differentiation on a desktop because on a desktop files are stored on a hdd, whereas a portable device usually uses flash as its storage and swap.

And just to clarify, Vista readyboost is completely different to RAM or swap partitions.
Flash memory is limited to a certain number of writes, it is a very large number so in normal use you will probably never hit it. Reading however will not affect the lifetime of your flash memory.
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
Readyboost uses an SD/USB memory card/stick as a cache to quickly load frequently used files, this is because it's generally faster to read from flash memory than from the hard disk. Readyboost DOES NOT write very often, this is why it is suitable for use with flash memory.
Swap/Paging/Virtual memory is completely different, it is an area on a disk, a file on windows or a seperate partition on linux, where the operating system can dump some of the data that is in RAM if it runs out of space. If you have low RAM or are using high memory applications this will do alot of reading AND writing, therefore will reduce the lifetime of your flash memory. This is why swap partitions are normally on hard disks.
Hope this helps explain it!

robblue2x said:
Hard drives do not have any such limits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure they do. Just considerably longer. Also, hard disks, for quite a long time now, have been capable of dynamically remapping around worn out sections and come with a decent chunk of unused space that is used for remapping. Hard disks also suffer from gradual demagnetization -- over time, the differing magnetic fields on the platter will interact with each other, causing data loss. You can generally expect a finite life time of any hard disk before large sections of the platter become unusable. I have noticed this particularly to be the case with winvista, which by default likes to catalog and recatalog your disk (they say for fast searching), but the end result is writing and rewriting of the same small portion of the disk, which causes it to wear out VERY quickly, though leaving the balance of the disk perfectly functional.

there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now

That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
SyXbiT said:
there might be a way to physically remove (with a soldering iron) the 192MB ram chip, and solder on a 288MB ram chip like those on the newer HTC phones.
I really want more RAM, but I also want a keyboard. and with Android, you can't have both right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

R3nrut said:
That would be an impressive waste of time and energy but kudos if you could manage that. Best bet would be to buy the Hero when it comes out and get a bluetooth keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!

I would definitely try it (I'm an Electrical Engineer, and solder at work all the time)
But i'd rather buy a 288MB chip from somewhere, rather than rip it from a different device.
I don't wanna throw away money.
if someone knows a supplier for those chips let me know and I'll try it and post screenshots

The last 2 smartphones I have owned there has been a discussion on upgrading the memory with huge threads and a few people trying. The end result has always been it is by far cheaper to get a new phone in another year which will have a faster processor, more memory, more storage etc...
Sure it can be done but with how fast technology changes it probably isn't worth it.

So is HTC HERO worth buying for more RAM and speed??

Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.

lbcoder said:
Only if the HTC Magic also is, because they're exactly the same except for the shape of the plastic.
I wouldn't give up the keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the htc magic isn't exactly the same. Some htc magic models (like google ion and tmobile mytouch) only have 192megs of RAM.

My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..

You are probably confusing internal FLASH with RAM. A class 6 uSD card is NOWHERE NEAR the speed of the ram. The RAM is orders of magnitude faster.
sonikamd said:
My understanding is that apps are limitted to 16mb of ram anyway. The real problem is the data rate of the ram. Some have hinted that a class 6 sd card is just as fast at read/write as the phone's ram. So more ram in theory won't really help if it's still limmited by read/write rate speed. More internal memory would be nice but again won't make the phone any faster, just help with our 'out of room for apps issue'.
Perhaps on the hero motherboard buss speeds themselves are faster but I doubt there's much we could to speed up the dream :/ someone please correct me if I'm wrong tho..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
I thought there was a technical manual out for the G1 somewhere that listed parts... Not just the service manual which showed you how to open the device for repair. Could be worth running a decent google search for the motherboard and parts and then find a supplier for the RAM if you're game in trying to solder more on.
Thanks to the flexibility of Android as well, I'm pretty sure it would be able to read and make use of the extra RAM too.

blackeyedbrian said:
Does hero even work on tmob 3g in the US? Looks like its geared for at&t.
I'd say replace the memory chip if you can and report back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last I heard it was going to Sprint instead possibly. I really hope it doesn't!

NeoBlade said:
Reminds me of the days when people soldered on extra RAM on the XBOX1 to increase performance when using XBOX Media Center!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...this is exactly what I thought...
With the recent rumors of the g1 not supporting donut due to its lack of memory... this mod is number 1 on my list... I plan to do this soon... any one else?

How much USABLE Internal Memory is there on Desire HD?

I know there is 1.5GB of internal memory on the device, but since some is used for OS, how much usable memory is there in the stock OS. I am trying to think of if I should get the Desire HD or Inspire 4g (I recently found out that even though the Inspire has 4GB of ROM, only about 1GB is usable)
Thanks!

Its about 1gb but i think most of them are shipped with an 8gb sd card, mine came with the card so not really worried.

dortok said:
I know there is 1.5GB of internal memory on the device, but since some is used for OS, how much usable memory is there in the stock OS. I am trying to think of if I should get the Desire HD or Inspire 4g (I recently found out that even though the Inspire has 4GB of ROM, only about 1GB is usable)
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's approximately 1.1GB ( I forgot the exact number closest to megabytes) out of the box.

[Q] Lenovo TPT HDD and RAM memory lower than in spec

Hi,
I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad tabled with memory specifications of 1GB RAM and 16GB HDD. All nice, until I go in Settings and check at settings/applications/storage use/running and all which show a disappointing values of total memory ~550MB RAM (almost half...) and ~12GB (almost 25% less...).
For HDD, I can not accept that the rest of 4GB are hidden because are used by Android 3.1 or used by file system format. Even so, Lenovo should be honest and declare total memory against available memory even is "eaten" by various reasons.
For RAM, I can not find any explanation why I see only half.
Q1-Can somebody explain me if tablet is faulty or has a kind of manufacturing issue ?
Q2-Can somebody to check if his tablet has the same memory discrepancies versus manufacturer specifications ?
Thanks!

All tablet's have this "cheaty" way of listing specs. But if you buy a laptop and it says 200gb. You can be pretty sure that windows 7 or what ever is installed is taking up space. The same applies to RAM. While the system may come with 4gb ram, the system has "eaten" som of it.
So, I don't really see the complaint here?

siggehandf said:
All tablet's have this "cheaty" way of listing specs. But if you buy a laptop and it says 200gb. You can be pretty sure that windows 7 or what ever is installed is taking up space. The same applies to RAM. While the system may come with 4gb ram, the system has "eaten" som of it.
So, I don't really see the complaint here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
The specs will never match the actual available memory since there is always space allocated to system whether it be ram or hdd
Sent from my GALAXY NEXUS using Tapatalk

sorinutzu said:
For RAM, I can not find any explanation why I see only half.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's likely that the other half is being reserved as video memory.

Hi,
Thanks for reply. I've done a check on other tablets and they show the same lower memory than spec, except Asus 501 I think with ICS 4.
However, I think it should be specified total phisical memory and available memory.

sorinutzu said:
Hi,
Thanks for reply. I've done a check on other tablets and they show the same lower memory than spec, except Asus 501 I think with ICS 4.
However, I think it should be specified total phisical memory and available memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Total available ram will be different and much less than the specs on any Android or mobile device. The system uses memory to load OS and for graphics.
Also the memory space will be less formatted and with all the system apps.
Just like a formatted hard drive or ssd is less than spec.
I do not know why people still complain about these things it is pretty ignorant. Have you ever owned a computer, tablet or cell phone before?
Sent from my HTC Rezound

Bigger Internal Memory vs Higher Processor

Heya folks....i read from many sources on the web saying that internal memory on android device will give better performance versus the external one. Some say that even the best class 10 micro sd will perform not as good as built in memory especially when loading HD games.
So I'm planning to buy android phone which has large built in memory, in this case i pick sony xperia TX, but now sony has launched a new device which is xperia SP. It has the qualcomm S4 pro and adreno 320 which is better compared to TX's S4 plus and adreno 225. But the problem is it has a small ammount of built in memory (about 5gb user available). Which one should i take?

Xperia TX!
recca666 said:
Heya folks....i read from many sources on the web saying that internal memory on android device will give better performance versus the external one. Some say that even the best class 10 micro sd will perform not as good as built in memory especially when loading HD games.
So I'm planning to buy android phone which has large built in memory, in this case i pick sony xperia TX, but now sony has launched a new device which is xperia SP. It has the qualcomm S4 pro and adreno 320 which is better compared to TX's S4 plus and adreno 225. But the problem is it has a small ammount of built in memory (about 5gb user available). Which one should i take?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my view you should take the Xperia TX with the higher amount of builtin memory.
I'm shure that you won't need a high-end processor for your daily usage. It has also enough power for the most games available in google play.
And I can say that you don't hav a much fun if the internal memory is to low, especially if you're planning to play hd-games wich will probably need about one or two gig of memory
So in my view you really don't need the SXSp...
I hope this helpes you a bit,
icebeanpie
And sorry for my bad english - I'm from germany

You could also just get a HTC One or a Samsung GS4 wich hav both, big storage and a nice processor...

Bigger internal memory ruless...
I usually put huge data game on internal memory, it reduce lag n rendering time (trust me, I done compared it)... But I still have 32gb class 10sdcard to keep media like video,music n stored picture..
It suck to have generated 10 post just to tell how happy n thankfull iam for using a rom they make.
Sent from my LT26w using xda premium