Database Users

Is your 4G a battery killer?

I tested the following:
Turning 4G on in a full bar area and letting it stand idle for one hour.
I lost about 20% battery in one single hour.
The phone had the screen off, wifi off and all apps but the essential ones off.
On 3G i lost about 5%/hour.
4G is supposed to be an "always-on" service with such a battery drainage?
I was sure it was supposed to be a power efficient service, like WiFi or at least like 3G.
Note the phone also gets a little hot after one hour if being idle with 4G on.
I wonder if other people are seeing the same results?

clubtech said:
4G is supposed to be an "always-on" service with such a battery drainage? I was sure it was supposed to be a power efficient service, like WiFi or at least like 3G.
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Ummmm...
Wow...
ummmm...
4g = bad for battery

OK...Thanks!
I really wanted someone else to test this and report back.
Maybe it is just my unit or the ROM that i am using?

clubtech said:
OK...Thanks!
I really wanted someone else to test this and report back.
Maybe it is just my unit or the ROM that i am using?
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LoL sorry brotha' I was just messing around
You gotta admit though, you set yourself up for that one
In all seriousness, 4g is an absolute battery killer! ESPECIALLY if your in an area where you don't get good 4g signal.
If your in a good area and surrounded by 4g then the phone doesn't really have to work at all to keep the signal BUT if your in an area where there's not much 4g signal, like most of America, then it will destroy your battery life (and make your phone hot) because your phone keeps searching for it over and over which chews up the battery. I would ALWAYS keep 4g off unless your downloading something until the 4g becomes more expanded across America. Also download the app battery indicator and make sure you keep track of your battery temperature with it in the status bar. I never let my battery get above 99*F since that will cause permanent damage. In your first post you were talking about losing 20% in an hour while on 4g which would alot of sense since the phone (on 3g) is only slated to get 4-5 hours of talk time, with 4g on always searching for signal the 20% loss seems about right.
Sorry again for messing with you earlier

np.
I am with full 4g bar when testing, so it is not a signal issue.

Yeah, it's a huge battery drainer. I forgot I turned it on in town, took a nap and had 85% battery left, fell asleep and took a 2 hour nap, woke up and it was dead dead mofo dead.
So yeah, it's a battery killer.

Good thing you can barely use the main advertising feature of this phone.

roybotnik said:
Good thing you can barely use the main advertising feature of this phone.
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LOL A+
stupid10char

Theory as to why there is such a difference in some people's battery life times

I live in Idaho. Sprint advertises that they have 'mammoth coverage' around here, but they're wrong. They don't. Well, they have coverage (except for my house and office) and the 3G/4G speeds are usually complete **** unless you're within sight of a tower.
Data from the towers out in Caldwell haven't worked for over 2 months and Sprint claims that they're working just fine and have recently been updated - apparently they updated to dial-up. I really wonder how they're even selling phones over there right now.
Idaho = Battery life is usually 5 to 10 hours with normal usage.
2 weekends ago I was in Omaha and used my evo a little bit less than normal, but I could get through the whole day and still have 50%+ battery life left. The 3G speeds were also 2x better, as well as service in general.
I think it depends on where you're located and if sprint has maintained/updated their towers. I also think that most of the towers in Nampa/Caldwell (20 mi. out of Boise) are older nextel towers, which are probably complete ****/half working.
Just my theory.

Sounds plausible, but I have no idea scientifically speaking. I could guess but I don't think it would be productive.
My honest suggestion? Post this over at the dslreports.com forums; there were some really knowledgeable people lurking there.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I agree. In addition to rogue apps/processes, it seems that weak network is #2 on my list of things to check when my batt life is draining too much.

This isn't really a theory, it is fact. If you have bad coverage you can basically watch your battery drain. I could drain mine dead overnight by leaving my phone unplugged and in the basement.. I had 1 bar of roaming service. I now hqve an airave and battery life drains much less overnight.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

teamgreen02 said:
This isn't really a theory, it is fact. If you have bad coverage you can basically watch your battery drain. I could drain mine dead overnight by leaving my phone unplugged and in the basement.. I had 1 bar of roaming service. I now hqve an airave and battery life drains much less overnight.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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ive had my batter die in 3 hours because of no service. I watched my battery go from 70% to 30% in 1 hour because of no signal. Since I'm not running CM6 the roam control app has been well worth the couple of bucks. No more missed calls and far less battery drain when im in low signal areas.

Poor 3G low signal is the biggest battery problem for Android!
Android (not the Evo but the entire OS) has a very poor system for dealing with Low Signal for 3G and it does NOT automatically switch over to 2G when it's supposed to which CAN and DOES result in greatly increased battery life.
Other phone OS's do this or are supposed to do this but for some reason Google has just not implemented a good system for dealing with this COMMON issue.
I use a program called JuiceDefender (Paid version is best but the free version will prove to you how useful it is) and it is literally the best app I run on my Evo. Overnight I went from my phone dying by 4pm when working at a location with low signal to having it last multiple days in some cases depending on my usage.
Do yourselves a favor, Get this application and if you have your phone rooted you get many extra features out of the full version. Can't speak highly enough of this application.
Tim

teamgreen02 said:
This isn't really a theory, it is fact. If you have bad coverage you can basically watch your battery drain. I could drain mine dead overnight by leaving my phone unplugged and in the basement.. I had 1 bar of roaming service. I now hqve an airave and battery life drains much less overnight.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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I agree with that and know that when you have 0/1/2 bars it really drains your battery life, however, I get the same battery life if I'm at home all day using it (0/1/2 bars), or if I'm at college and have 5 bars all day and I'm not using it quite as much.
I have fresh 3.3 with the htc kernel 53 fps (and all the latest radios/pri/prl/ect.) and have seen much improved battery life, but it's still the exact same.
I also have an airave at the office (which is out in Caldwell where the data doesn't even work) for the other two people on my plan, and while they have seen slightly less battery drain since we got the airave (for free), it's not a mind-blowing difference, other than the data actually works. They're also running the 2.1 stock, but rooted with unrevoked.
I guess I'm wondering if staying connected to a tower with older tech/Nextel uses more power than if it's connected to a sprint tower.

Hrshycro said:
I think it depends on where you're located and if sprint has maintained/updated their towers. I also think that most of the towers in Nampa/Caldwell (20 mi. out of Boise) are older nextel towers, which are probably complete ****/half working.
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There's no way your Evo is working off of any Nextel towers. Those are IDEN and your Evo is CDMA...not happening. It's been known for years now that if you have poor/no signal, your battery will drain rapidly as the device will constantly search for a better signal.

anthony67 said:
There's no way your Evo is working off of any Nextel towers. Those are IDEN and your Evo is CDMA...not happening. It's been known for years now that if you have poor/no signal, your battery will drain rapidly as the device will constantly search for a better signal.
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Good to know - How do people get Sprint Phones to work on Boost mobile then? Boost is using nextel towers, or that's what I've read several times.
I agree with that and know that when you have 0/1/2 bars it really drains your battery life, however, I get the same battery life if I'm at home all day using it (0/1/2 bars), or if I'm at college and have 5 bars all day and I'm not using it quite as much.
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Hrshycro said:
Boost is using nextel towers, or that's what I've read several times.
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You're half right. Boost does use nextel towers--For iDen phones. They do use the Sprint network for CDMA phones. Basically boost carries both CDMA and iDen phones.
As for how people get Sprint phones to work with Boost(CDMA)... Hm... Let's just say they do something shady and possibly illegal...They clone ESNs.

"zzz" on the 4g sign

I have always wondered when the 4g sign gets the little zzz on top of it replacing the little wifi type sign, does it mean that the 4g is temporary disabled or that there's no data being transfered over its connection.
In short, is it equivalent to the arrows on the 3g sign being grayed out instead of colored in?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

yes, in other words its sleeping

Does that mean it's not draining my battery like it does on tha Evo ? Because they tell me to turn tha toggle off on my Evo if im not in a 4g area.I hope I made any sense.thx

Pito2k6 said:
Does that mean it's not draining my battery like it does on tha Evo ? Because they tell me to turn tha toggle off on my Evo if im not in a 4g area.I hope I made any sense.thx
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That is a good question. I want to know the answer to that myself. If your not in a 4g area then it will use up more battery because your device will be searching for a 4g signal. But if your getting 4g signal I don't really know if it uses more battery by keeping it on.
I keep my 4g on all the time. My battery life was crappy before using 4g and it just as crappy after using it.

Silent25r said:
That is a good question. I want to know the answer to that myself. If your not in a 4g area then it will use up more battery because your device will be searching for a 4g signal. But if your getting 4g signal I don't really know if it uses more battery by keeping it on.
I keep my 4g on all the time. My battery life was crappy before using 4g and it just as crappy after using it.
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i imagine that the radio for 4g uses more then 3g radios but thats because the tech is new.. so will it eat more battery idling then 3g? i imagine so

No, while ur 4g is on it pretty much drains the same amount of battery power, my advice is if ur not in a 4g area just b safe and cut it off...but the zzz's aren't really saving power if u wanna save power ull actually have 2 turn 4g off

I'm not an expert on 4G but I *think* the Zzz indicates 4G connected in sleep mode which keeps your mobile IP session up. This in turn gives the spectrum back to the tower you're on to use for active connections. If traffic originates on either side (e.g. from your mobile device or from the internet) the mobile IP session is still active so your device is addressable by IP, traffic can be routed to or from, and the tower base station controller (BSC) allocates some spectrum/RF to your device for the traffic to begin flowing. In theory, the base station controller could allocate multiple WiMax frequency bands if you needed the bandwidth, but that would depend on how the BSC is configured, the load on that specific tower (both on RF and backhaul), and what the demand was like. It would save some battery being in Zzz/sleep, but not as much as turning the 4G radio off entirely when you don't need it.
I'm on Quantum ROM 1.5 which is a Froyo Beta build - I've noticed I have enough battery life with this ROM to turn on 4G on all day if I feel like it, but frankly I'm around WiFi 95% of my day - so I don't bother with 4G unless I really need speed on the move (away from home/work).

shabbypenguin said:
i imagine that the radio for 4g uses more then 3g radios but thats because the tech is new.. so will it eat more battery idling then 3g? i imagine so
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I think you're right shabbypenguin. CDMA EVDO chipsets have been around for awhile and fairly mature. WiMAX chipsets are available from a few different vendors and haven't been around as long, hence probably not fully optimized for performance and power use/battery life.

Reviews of the HTC Thunderbolt have me concerned

Battery life estimates for the Thunderbolt are in the neighborhood of 4hrs due to Verizon's LTE 4G. There is no way to disable the battery draining 4G.
How would this affect our Xoom's? I think the general consensus is that the Xoom has "very good" battery performance but that's on 3G. Maybe it's not worth doing the free upgrade right away???
Just throwing that out there.

Snapdragon has never had good battery life to begin with.

You don't have to worry since the 4G upgrade won't happen until around June and that is only what is speculated. Assuming June is the time frame to send back your xoom, Verizon should be coming up with a solution the 4G battery drain problem.
A few 4G smartphones are coming out in april (Motorola Droid Bionic, Samsung Charge, LG Revolution) which should give Verizon more feedback to see if these new devices are also draining battery like crazy using 4G. The hope is that by June/July, Verizon should have pinpointed the problem and have a fix by then whether that is small or big as long as there is progress.
Keep in mind that HTC is not known for its great battery life. Hopefully the Droid Bionic coming out in April does well since that is the phone I am planning to get and switch from Sprint to Verizon.

atoy74 said:
Battery life estimates for the Thunderbolt are in the neighborhood of 4hrs due to Verizon's LTE 4G. There is no way to disable the battery draining 4G.
How would this affect our Xoom's? I think the general consensus is that the Xoom has "very good" battery performance but that's on 3G. Maybe it's not worth doing the free upgrade right away???
Just throwing that out there.
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You can disable 4G threw an app called Network by Phillip Magelow. I have the Thunderbolt and 4G on it sucks the battery like no other. Plus, HTC is known for not having the best battery life (had an Eris and it sucked). Juice Defender and PowerMax have helped quite a bit.

I don't believe that 4G has much to do with the HTC Thunderbolts bad battery performance.
I have a HTC Desire HD, it doesn't have 4G and it's battery lasts maybe 4,5hrs of continuous use.

Wobblin30 said:
You can disable 4G threw an app called Network by Phillip Magelow. I have the Thunderbolt and 4G on it sucks the battery like no other. Plus, HTC is known for not having the best battery life (had an Eris and it sucked). Juice Defender and PowerMax have helped quite a bit.
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Yeah, I figured that most people on XDA would figure out how to disable 4G but I was mainly considering the avg Joe.
Let's see if Moto/Verizon figure it out. To date I'm a little surprised we haven't seem more OTA updates.

I don't know that this is unique to LTE, either. I know that Wimax on my Sprint Epic also kills the battery life.
However, I'd imagine the impact on the Xoom would be less visible, since the Xoom has such better battery life to begin with.

wynand32 said:
I don't know that this is unique to LTE, either. I know that Wimax on my Sprint Epic also kills the battery life.
However, I'd imagine the impact on the Xoom would be less visible, since the Xoom has such better battery life to begin with.
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Yes, all 4G technologies are battery hogs right now. The difference is you can disable Wimax and live on 3G if you wanted. That's what I do with my Evo. I treat Wimax just like wifi...I enable it when needed. LTE (as of now) cannot be easily disabled.
As for impact on the Xoom, I'd tend to agree with you. BUT, if you're device drops for 8hrs of constant use to 6hrs, I'm sure many people would complain.

atoy74 said:
Yes, all 4G technologies are battery hogs right now. The difference is you can disable Wimax and live on 3G if you wanted. That's what I do with my Evo. I treat Wimax just like wifi...I enable it when needed. LTE (as of now) cannot be easily disabled.
As for impact on the Xoom, I'd tend to agree with you. BUT, if you're device drops for 8hrs of constant use to 6hrs, I'm sure many people would complain.
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There is an app that turns it off with a push of a button, how much easier do you want it

Well, there's a few factors here that should be taken into consideration before getting your panties in a twist...
First, you can turn the 4G radio on or off on the TB, either by using an app or dialing into the test menu. I have no doubt the same will be possible on the Xoom. Second, VZ's LTE coverage isn't everywhere, so it may be a moot point for some folks anyway. Third, even if LTE is available in your area, some may not care to send their Xoom to Moto for the upgrade, even if it is free. Example- I hardly use the 4G radio on my EVO, though it was a big sellling point for me when I first acquired it. The only time I really use it is when browsing YouTube, or for wireless tethering (but of course YMMV).
Either way, nothing to get 'em in a twist over, eh?

It is known fact that faster modem consumes more power. Bandwidth is directly translated into power requirement.
However, because of larger battery modem energy consumption for Xoom may be only 5-10% of total energy available in the battery while that ratio might be 15-25% for the Thunderbolt having smaller battery.
I wouldn't worry about it for Xoom. Besides you can save it switching to Geico (or 3G).

Keep in mind that its not just the 4g radio that's draining the thunderbolts battery. It has a huge screen, fast processor, and a tiny tiny tiny battery (around 1250mAh?). Case in point the Evo 4g had crappy battery life even staying on 3g with a larger battery than the TB.
From what I can tell the screen is by and large the hugest drain on the Xooms battery, LTE will of course have more drain, but it won't affect it as much as it does on a phone I don't think.

Concerns about Xoom 4G upgrade (Verizon)

I have read some disturbing reviews about the Thunderbolt which is a 4G LTE Verizon phone. Although the phone itself sounds great, what concerns me are reports that the battery life is around 4-5 hours with 4G turned on.
So my question and concern is, once we upgrade the Xoom to 4G when available, are we going to be victims of the same poor battery life with 4G?

You're not required to have data connection on all the time. A toggle switch widget can fix the problem. Just turns it on when needed. But yeah I do agree that 4g and 3g will drain the battery.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

I already keep my Xoom on airplane mode to disable all radios that I don't specifically activate. Seems to help with battery life. I downloaded some toggle Widgets to shortcut all the steps.
[sent with Xooming Android technology]

wang1404 said:
You're not required to have data connection on all the time. A toggle switch widget can fix the problem. Just turns it on when needed. But yeah I do agree that 4g and 3g will drain the battery.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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That is not really a solution. Currently with my Xoom, I can be on Wifi at home and when I am out, 3G kicks in. I do not want to toggle a widget when I need data (which is always) as I am sure most other people will not want to do. My battery life is totally acceptable currently with 3G and no toggling on/off. So will the 4G upgrade cause the battery life to be cut in half or worse?

keitht said:
That is not really a solution. Currently with my Xoom, I can be on Wifi at home and when I am out, 3G kicks in. I do not want to toggle a widget when I need data (which is always) as I am sure most other people will not want to do. My battery life is totally acceptable currently with 3G and no toggling on/off. So will the 4G upgrade cause the battery life to be cut in half or worse?
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I seriously doubt 4g will be much (if any) worse than 3g is now. The only way would be that you are on it more and keeping the screen on for longer times because it will RULE! lol

ghoticov said:
I seriously doubt 4g will be much (if any) worse than 3g is now. The only way would be that you are on it more and keeping the screen on for longer times because it will RULE! lol
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Just debating here but why do you think that? Why would Thunderbolt have a 4-5 hour battery life using 4G? You think that poor life is not 4G LTE related? And they have the luxury of swapping batteries which we cannot do with the Xoom.

I don't know how closely it is to sprint's 4g, but enabling 4g on my evo is a battery killer too. the good thing is that you can toggle 4g off and run in 3G mode. no need to disable data completely

madsquabbles said:
I don't know how closely it is to sprint's 4g, but enabling 4g on my evo is a battery killer too. the good thing is that you can toggle 4g off and run in 3G mode. no need to disable data completely
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That begs the question,why get 4g if you have to manage it manually like that?

keitht said:
That begs the question,why get 4g if you have to manage it manually like that?
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Keep in mind, that the 4g upgrade will be OPTIONAL and if you are seriously debating whether the upgrade will be worth it or not, then simply don't send it in for the upgrade! The less people to send it in (like you), would in turn mean faster return time for my upgrade! I personally don't give a damn about having to click a toggle switch when I want to download at crazy fast speeds!
Just my .02
I can also guarantee you that 4g will have a pretty noticeable impact on battery life. And to be perfectly honest with you, the HTC Thunderbolt (stock), even with 4g turned off, still has absolutely horrible battery life.

Instien said:
Keep in mind, that the 4g upgrade will be OPTIONAL and if you are seriously debating whether the upgrade will be worth it or not, then simply don't send it in for the upgrade! The less people to send it in (like you), would in turn mean faster return time for my upgrade! I personally don't give a damn about having to click a toggle switch when I want to download at crazy fast speeds!
Just my .02
I can also guarantee you that 4g will have a pretty noticeable impact on battery life. And to be perfectly honest with you, the HTC Thunderbolt (stock), even with 4g turned off, still has absolutely horrible battery life.
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Your response is very defensive and that is not the purpose of my questions. I am looking for meaningful conversation regarding the possibity that a 4g upgrade will significanty reduce battery life on the Xoom. All speculation but something to talk about.

So what I can gather is more or less around what everyone says. Get your 4g upgrade but don't turn it on and stick to 3g unless you feel you need the speed bump. So nothing will change except you know you have your turbo button-widget (yes old school) available.
That is unless it will be stuck on 4g at all times but looks like that is a feature that is toggled by today's hardware not permanent yet due to battery capacities.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App

foreverinpanama said:
So what I can gather is more or less around what everyone says. Get your 4g upgrade but don't turn it on and stick to 3g unless you feel you need the speed bump. So nothing will change except you know you have your turbo button-widget (yes old school) available.
That is unless it will be stuck on 4g at all times but looks like that is a feature that is toggled by today's hardware not permanent yet due to battery capacities.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App
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I am not one to complain without reason but I certainly hope this is not the case.

MY plan is to remove the dummy card right before shipping it out so I can put it back if I am unhappy with the battery life.

In theory, 4g should use less battery, not more. 3g chipset firmware is highly optimized, though, due to the technology having been around for a while.
It may be a few firmware revisions to hit minimum use for 4g, but it shouldn't use dramatically more than 3g.

The answer for this thread is simple. Yes 4G will use more battery power, that's the short end of the stick. If you live in a 4G area and don't need the speed boost and would rather save battery there will be a way to disable 4G and use 3G just like with the thunderbolt or evo
Sent from my Evo using Tapatalk

It isn't speculation. The evo has a long track record with 4g of a very similar type. 4g will be a battery hog. But I never use it on my evo unless I'm tethered or streaming. Otherwise I find 3g more than enough for most tasks. I will send my xoom in for the upgrade. But I don't activate it. I tether it to my evo. But yes it will be a battery hog. Whenever you use cutting edge technology they tends to develop the speed and reliability first and worry about power consumption last.

I work for Verizon and honestly rarely hear many complaints about the battery life on the Thunderbolt. Many of my customers get awesome battery life and we have 4g in my area. The LTE radio does consume more battery than 3g especially if you are downloading a large file or something. Another thing to consider is the Thunderbolt is like a big brother to the Incredible and that phone had HORRIBLE battery life. The Thunderbolt has a much larger screen, 4g, and does not have a very large battery. I don't see 4g having a huge impact for most people but for those that feel it helps there will always be a toggle widget or “turbo button” like someone said earlier. I will definitely be sending mine in right away...
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Ferradinho said:
I work for Verizon and honestly rarely hear many complaints about the battery life on the Thunderbolt. Many of my customers get awesome battery life and we have 4g in my area. The LTE radio does consume more battery than 3g especially if you are downloading a large file or something. Another thing to consider is the Thunderbolt is like a big brother to the Incredible and that phone had HORRIBLE battery life. The Thunderbolt has a much larger screen, 4g, and does not have a very large battery. I don't see 4g having a huge impact for most people but for those that feel it helps there will always be a toggle widget or “turbo button” like someone said earlier. I will definitely be sending mine in right away...
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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Sorry but you either live in a nice vacuum or a bubble or a cocoon because EVERYONE I know with this phone (friends, foes and customers too) loves it to death but hates the battery life with 4g on, and by default there's no way to turn off 4g when not needed.
Had to root for some friends and show them the 4g LTE off widget that came out the other day. At least that helps.
As for the Xoom, even if you might not want to use 4g or sign up, still send it in to be done. Definitely will help with resale value down the road.

my friend has the thunderbolt and the battery sucks, and he isn't in a 4g area. Mr verizon rep is on a feel good drug, or something.

keitht said:
I have read some disturbing reviews about the Thunderbolt which is a 4G LTE Verizon phone. Although the phone itself sounds great, what concerns me are reports that the battery life is around 4-5 hours with 4G turned on.
So my question and concern is, once we upgrade the Xoom to 4G when available, are we going to be victims of the same poor battery life with 4G?
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It's going to drain more then the cdma radio does, at least until the technology and the software support behind it is more mature. But that is to be expected with bleeding technology.
Also remember that part of the battery issues on the TB comes from the fact that people use it alot more then previous phones. Streaming data is alot more power intensive then just the comparable occasional usage their previous device saw. I have a TB and if I use the snot out of it then yeah I can kill the battery in a couple of hours. However if I am busy and use it like I used my D2 or DX then I can get through the day without having to recharge.
Also you can turn just the LTE radio off when you are not using it if you are that concerned
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk