Database Users

Droid X eFuse Security Information

Hey,
I have some experience with eFuses and I just wanted to offer some incite, as you know the whole bricking thing has been debunked and what not so no reason to worry.
What I did want to go over is what would happen if Motorola did choose to pop a eFuse. This type of security measure is not really meant to brick the device but to prevent downgrades in general.
Imagine a cave where TNT is placed by the opening, the eFuse purpose to collapse any possibility to downgrade the phone or boot loader. As in the Droid most people use the Motorola RDS tool to downgrade the phone so you have the available security holes needed. Blowing the eFuse would prevent this. Send out patch, then blow eFuse.
That being said they have not done anything like this with any of the current phones and would most likely avoid doing it to the Droid X. Even if they chose to do this it would be a big task to take on and would be risky.
Apple has not done it, nor Motorola. The only example I can think of when the xbox 360 was hacked and the team notified Microsoft about and they actually blew the eFuse to prevent and kernel downgrades and it worked.
Just thought I would share some information with the lot here at XDA
See ya

[Q] THEORETICAL Unlocking Question

WARNING
The topics discussed below are THEORETICAL only, and don't imply real world feasibility.
WARNING
That being said, let me test my understanding of how the system works:
The Droid 2 has a 'locked bootloader'. This means that the kernel has an RSA signed hash. THEORETICALLY, one could break the RSA key into its two component primes to determine the private key and enable anyone to sign a kernel correctly, thereby allowing custom kernels on the device.
If this is the case, where does the eFuse technology come into play? Is it merely a means of hard wiring the correct hash into the phone?
Also, assuming the above is correct, where can one find the public key used in the RSA key pair for the Droid 2? Thank you for your time.

I actually thought of this a couple months ago, but never got around to asking, I'd like to know also.

Can anyone confirm at least the first part of my understanding? Is there a common encryption key across all devices of the same make, or does that change within models? For example, If you knew the encryption key for a single Droid 2, does that mean you know the encryption key for every Droid 2?
Again, thanks for your time.

noctolater said:
Can anyone confirm at least the first part of my understanding? Is there a common encryption key across all devices of the same make, or does that change within models? For example, If you knew the encryption key for a single Droid 2, does that mean you know the encryption key for every Droid 2?
Again, thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think about it. If it were really that simple, don't you think the Devs would have unlocked it by now?

DeBaKai said:
Think about it. If it were really that simple, don't you think the Devs would have unlocked it by now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even using the General Number Field Sieve, which is the best known large integer factorization method currently available, it took a group of researchers 2 years to crack a 768-bit key in 2009 (look up RSA numbers). Every bit you add doubles the difficulty of the problem, meaning a 1024-bit key would be 10^77 times harder to crack. By their estimations, it will be feasible in roughly ten years time.
So no, I don't think the Devs would have unlocked it by now. And this is why this is a THEORETICAL discussion, instead of a practical one. I understand that what I am talking about is probably not possible at this time, I just want to make sure I fully understand how the manufacturers are locking down the phones. Thanks for you time.

I understand what you are saying (and for the record, your reasoning is accurate) but even theoretically it is pretty improbable (almost impossible without aid from Moto).
You could have just as easily done some research to find your answer. Although interesting, this topic is somewhat redundant.

DeBaKai said:
I understand what you are saying (and for the record, your reasoning is accurate) but even theoretically it is pretty improbable (almost impossible without aid from Moto).
You could have just as easily done some research to find your answer. Although interesting, this topic is somewhat redundant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did do research, about a weeks worth of Google searches, before I posted this. I couldn't really find any concise locations of information, so my knowledge is piecemeal at best. I just want to test my understanding of the concepts, even though it serves no practical purpose.
That being said, if you have any links to concise descriptions, I would be more than happy to see them

Fair enough. Although I think it may take a while before you get your answer.
Unfortunately, my knowledge in this particular subject is limited. I'm not going to be of any real help. Good luck with this, though.

An Excellent Rant

http://tl.gd/drbuch
(cue Chef Excellence music sting)
Sent from Remilla, my stock ASUS Transformer

That's "excellent"
It sounds like a baby about to "make" in his diaper.

QQ moar
10chars

chatch15117 said:
QQ moar
10chars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you want to know how old I am....?
I had to google the urban dictionary to find out what that meant!

HAHA Love that website i sit there and press random learn new words lol

A rant for sure. Not sure if it's excellent.

It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.

ExploreMN said:
It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exaaaaactly. You want root? Fine. Here. Your warranty is forever void now.

ExploreMN said:
It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in mixed minds about the whole thing really. PC manufacturers don't feel the need to lock down computers as much as phones are. The more locked down something is the more likely someone trying to avoid locks will screw things up.

The "secure boot" sub-rant is actually more pressing than the TF rant. I expect "mobile" devices to be locked down, and half the fun of playing with them is giving the company the finger and voiding the warranty.
Messing with my PC so that I can't install whatever OS I want on it is going too far, though. As far as I can tell, "secure boot" is either a way to force every Linux distro to pay for a signed cryptographic certificate in order to be installed on a "secure boot" PC, or a way to utterly disallow anything other than Windows8 to be installed on that PC.

Personally I wish that even PC's were like Android devices, but with the freedom to erase Windows and install *BSD or Linux at will retained .
In my experience the most troublesome majority of Windows users are too incompetent to have the equal of root access to their own machine, except to make more work for people that want to fix or break their machine. So I am in favour of the idea, sure...here's your Windows 9 PC, then charge an unlocking fee to enable making an Administrator account that can be accessed by the purchaser instead of Microsoft Update. Then we could just make extra money off whiny snots complaining none of their NOT NT ready crapware works any more, and remind them that the warrentee is void .
There's no substitute for inteligence. Stupid tax ftw!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

To all:
The Twitter post that I originally made was to let off some stream that I had with ASUS locking down the Transformer with no official way to unlock the device. I mean, rooting/unlocking is risky, but in responsible hands, it's no big deal. Yes, I see your points about the TF being a mobile device, not as a netbook, and that it should be locked by default, but I use it like a netbook, and I think it's pretty reasonable for it to be considered one, but I agree that newbies should not be tampering with the clock speed of the device, just too risky.
The main point of the post was: Why didn't ASUS provide a official way to unlock devices? They should either follow HTC and provide unlocking via a website, or just let me use "fastboot oem unlock".
Oh, and why are no HTC AT&T phones unlockable via htcdev.com?
Sent from Sukia, my rooted HTC Inspire.

Locking off bootloaders

Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk

Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-

It will be great to get our devices with S-OFF and eng S-OFF in advance.
We will not spend so much time with rooting then

Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...

I can see it now...
Hi Google?
What can I help you with?
My 5 second Google search led me to believe I could flash my street fighter rom to my phone?
::face_palm::

The main problem about unlocking bootloaders is the user itself.
A lot of people are throwing themselves in unlocking, rooting etc etc without reading and pay attention to the warnings. So, if my neighbour can do it, i'll do myself... The technical background is not the same for everyone, so it's not as simple as this.
I ve to admit that i blocked two or three devices (HTC desire HD, Xperia Arc, SGS2) but all the answers were here, if we know how to search unbricking a device only takes a few seconds/minutes to do.
Since the marority of newbies will not read, and search correctly in this forum, the brands will continue to lock their bootloaders to avoid problems with the 95% of users who think they know, but they don't.

I Am Marino said:
Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is why htc is offering an official unlocking tool, that will void your warranty. That way, you can do what you want, but htc isn't on the hook when you brick it.

e334 said:
Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.

z33dev33l said:
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think part of why mfgs are still apprehensive of unlocking bootloaders is because they want to protect their code sense, blurr, etc... Some folks are changing there tune. Curious that unlike unlocking Google experience devices some mfgs are developing there own "unlock tool" I'll be apprehensive about using any tool from an mfg. I'm sure they'll CYA and you'll take all of the risk..

nrfitchett4 said:
Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like many have mentioned, we know what were doing to our phones by rooting/modding, but the manufacturer is treating us like little kids by not trusting us (looking @ you motorola)
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium

Haha, i'm one of those "haaaaah bricked my kindle fire" and yes i was just stuck in fastboot, some reading i build my fix
fastboot -i 0x1949 boot CWM5-B2.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the manufacturer open bootloader means trouble, people will just brick there devices.
An other interesting argument i was stumling i going like: "We have to look the bootloader to keep the software integer for people not messing with the drm of music / videos. "

yea, i believe they just wanna protect their code

All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Besides the number of people who actually mess around with their phones are a small amount. I'd say maybe less than 2% (and that's being generous).
If you don't want a locked bootloader, get a Samsung.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.

I Am Marino said:
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And why the hell not? A smartphone is nothing more than a pocket-sized computer with telephony features. Any desktop from the past thirty years can also make phone calls provided it's connected to a network. So the fact that a smartphone makes calls does not make it less of a computer.
It's a computer. A very small computer that fits in your pocket, that also has phone functions. I long for the day when I can buy a barebones smartphone and install whatever OS I want on it, Android or MeeGo or Ubuntu Mobile or Symbian or Windows Phone or whatever other mobile-oriented OSes are out there at the time.

I just long for the day people get complete control of something they actually own.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem with unlocking of bootloaders. But I do agree with OEM stance that unlocking of bootloader may void your warranty. Same thing if you mod your engine on your car, you may void your warranty for the engine. I agree that you should be allowed to mod the phone, just that htc shouldn't replace it when you screw it up. I think htcdev is about as balanced as we are going to get on it.

Unlock bootloader for Fire HD 8 6th Gen

I just got couple Fire HD 8 6th Gen tablets for my kids, and thought I'd flash them right away with a custom ROM. I was quite disappointed with the absence of development for this tablet.
Anyway, as far as I understood from reading the forum (and I just started, sorry if I missed something), the first problem is the factory locked bootloader. And it sounded from a post I read like it's something that cannot be solved: http://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/help/rooted-boot-img-t3508316 (bootloader locked discussion starts at the bottom of the 1st page).
Well, I am definitely not a pro in mobile development (I work on server side software for living), so I beg your pardon if I'm wrong. But unlocking a locked bootloader is not something unheard of.
So, I was wondering, if it could be done for other device, then probably it can be done for this one too. And the fact that it has not been done yet could mean for example, that this device is somehow different. Or, it could mean that there was no one yet with enough expertise AND the device at hand to do it.
So if the latter is true, and it's just lack of attention from good developers. Then I guess it could be arranged to donate a device to a reputable XDA dev. A dev that would be interested in having a challenge. And a free device.
I would definitely pitch in, and if you would too, please tell. And if you know an XDA dev who has expertise to do it, please tell too, and give an example of their work.
All the above is open for discussion of course, constructive suggestions would be much appreciated.

The 7" is locked but got a lot of love and is now rootable. If the guys at Kingroot that interest, we might see something but otherwise not. Until rooted, not much point porting a ROM.

So I suppose the proposition is to send a device to KingRoot guys?

...in China.....

I was wondering how the issue of locked encrypted bootloader was solved for other Fire devices. Here's how it's been done for Fire HDX 8.9: http://forum.xda-developers.com/kin...bootloader-unlock-procedure-software-t3030281 . I suppose the bug used in this method has been fixed already, this is just a demonstration that it can be done.

That was cracked using a crypto bug. Basically exploiting a weakness in the RSA encryption of the bootloader's signature. It's incredibly rare for encryption to get totally broken like this, and easily patched with system updates. Kinda got lucky on that one. Best thing to hope for first is root, then try to find a way around the bootloader's protection. These keep getting exponentially harder, and there's a lot more money on developing protections than breaking them.

I received one as a gift. I will probably never use it unless its opened up.... i mean im appreciative that someone gifted me it. But I become really upset by the fact that samsung and amazon... all the big players really lock up their bootloader and force me onto some ecosystem when i know the tablet or device could work just so much better. Anyways, if there is anything i can contribute let me know...

Download the Kingroot App then run it. After running it once or twice it will ask you to send a device request. Root may eventually be achieved for the 6th Gen but that may be as far as it gets. Very unlikely that the bootloader will be unlocked. Amazon actively puts a lot of effort into keeping them locked. Its been a while since any newer version of these Fire bootloaders have been unlocked. The HD 8 5th Gen is about 2 years old and the only thing thats been achieved was root and that was done by Kingroot..... But hey nothings impossible....