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I have started a dialog with Rogers whereby I am asking nicely for them to honor the licenses which are listed in:
[Home]->[Menu]->[Settings]->[About phone]->[Legal information]->[Open source licenses]
The first source code I have requested is for the file /kernel listed in the above mentioned [Open source licenses].
An email sent nearly 24 hours ago has not been acknowledged by Rogers, despite the fact that their Contact Us email portal indicated that I would receive an acknowledgement within 24 hours.
Consequently, I called Rogers and managed to get a Rogers representative to email me back indicating that next business day (Monday) s/he would try to point me to the right person within Rogers.
Let's see if we can change what shows up when you search "Open Source" on the Rogers web site:
http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=search&Ntt=Open+Source
erdroid said:
I have started a dialog with Rogers whereby I am asking nicely for them to honor the licenses which are listed in:
[Home]->[Menu]->[Settings]->[About phone]->[Legal information]->[Open source licenses]
The first source code I have requested is for the file /kernel listed in the above mentioned [Open source licenses].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The actual kernel is written by HTC, but good idea, ask Rogers to point us in the right direction because we haven't gotten anywhere asking HTC directly.
Here's an update for you. I've been contacting HTC customer service for a month now, and I've had my issue escalated to a VP at HTC America. I relayed to him all the hassle I've been put through for something they're legally responsible to provide, and the story I heard is as such:
HTC was asked by Rogers to make some last minute changes, but they didn't specify what. They were also asked to withhold source code for reasons that HTC wouldn't comment on. Basically, the representative confirmed that Rogers specifically asked HTC to do this. So I had the issue escalated to a VP at HTC America. After a month of hassle, and the final escalation earlier this week, here is the email response I got back today from the VP today.
David,
Thank you very much for your note and more importantly, thank you for your business and loyalty to HTC products. We owe all of our success to you and customers like you. I also want to thank you for taking the time to write me personally and communicating specific areas where we can improve in our customer service. I will investigate the issue and get back to you by Tuesday, 7/28 at the latest. Additionally, I will have our Head of Customer Service drive our Call Centers to do a better job of communicating, particularly on this issue. My apologies for the time you've had to invest in this to date.
All the best,
Jason
Jason B. Mackenzie
Vice President, North America Region
E-Mail: (Removed, but not hard to find)
So while it isn't "source code in my hand", it's at least *something*. I'll provide more info as it becomes available to me for sure.
Wow, bullet dodging everywhere. I talked to some folks from Google and they don't have the code we are looking for, that's for certain. HTC blames Google, Google blames HTC, HTC blames Rogers. How complex is this problem really? It's probably 5 lines of code that they changed. We need to get past their buffer-wall of customer support and talk to someone in engineering.
PhaseBurn said:
HTC was asked by Rogers to ... withhold source code ...confirmed that Rogers specifically asked HTC to do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Rogers asked HTC to break the law and they complied?
Can we get this confirmed in writing? An email (with headers) from an official at HTC stating that such a request was made regarding kernel source would help. If we do that, we would have the silver bullet we need to go after robbers AND htc in civil court -- think class action, and we should get some major kernel contributors and open source advocates on board-- I'm sure that LOTS of people would LOVE to take up this cause.
My prediction: if there was a class action civil case organized naming rogers and htc as defendants, htc will fold and hand out the source, probably quickly. Rogers... maybe not because they're bastards.
I'm pretty sure they are having some meetings about that internally at HTC right now because I inquired about the source from HTC 3 days ago and they still haven't replied to me, not even a canned response. I'm pretty sure they are investigating right now how they can give us source while not giving away whatever they are trying to hide.
lbcoder said:
So Rogers asked HTC to break the law and they complied?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I don't believe this is a violation of the GPL, and some quick googling tells me that the FSF agrees (see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowNDA)
Even though Rogers would be in violation for distributing a modified kernel without source, HTC would not be.
Northsun said:
No, I don't believe this is a violation of the GPL, and some quick googling tells me that the FSF agrees (see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowNDA)
Even though Rogers would be in violation for distributing a modified kernel without source, HTC would not be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're correct, and unless somebody who has code in the linux kernel they're shipping wants to file suit, we can't go after them legally as we aren't representative of somebody being damaged by their copyright infringement, despite that it hurts us. Stupid copyright law, even under the GPL, requires an author of the material to go after the company.
HTC designed the phone, and customized it for Rogers. I'm not honestly sure who bears the legal responsibility of releasing the source code for the GPL'd components, either Rogers or HTC, but one of them does and HTC is seemingly claiming responsibility for it.
Since you want email headers, here they are. Yes, I have blocked out email addresses (ONLY), as I don't need any more levels of spam nor does Mr. Mackenzie, I'm sure. I will post the full headers, unedited, in a .txt file somewhere if requested and link to it, I'm not trying to hide anything, I'm just not comfortable posting some things on public forums. I also did not disclose to Mr. Mackenzie that I'd be cross-posting his email reply anywhere, so the least I can do out of respect is not publicly post his email unless it's warranted.
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From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:12:05 -0700
Subject: RE: HTC Dream
Thread-Topic: HTC Dream
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Something tells me that the software they are referring to is NOT the kernel and is most likely the custom apps and other software on the device. Your VP probably has no idea at all what a kernel is, especially if he wants to refer you to customer support. This should have been sent straight to their engineering staff. If you can get them to clarify this, maybe we should send the story to some huge site that loves this kind of stuff like Slashdot. Get the community nice and outraged
cyanogen said:
Something tells me that the software they are referring to is NOT the kernel and is most likely the custom apps and other software on the device. Your VP probably has no idea at all what a kernel is, especially if he wants to refer you to customer support. This should have been sent straight to their engineering staff. If you can get them to clarify this, maybe we should send the story to some huge site that loves this kind of stuff like Slashdot. Get the community nice and outraged
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I totally agree, and I sent a similar email to the VP of Engineering as well, but have not gotten a reply. In my email, I explained what a kernel was, and that the open source license in the Legal section of the device specifically covered /kernel which was all I wanted the source to. I'm not holding my breath I'll get something on the 28th besides a "we're still working on it" but at least it's something, and ultimately, I hope it does lead to the source we need. This is an excerpt of what I wrote to him, so I'm hoping that even if he doesn't understand it, it's enough for him to get over to the staff who does. I assumed that since it hasn't been released yet, it is likely NOT an Engineering decision, but being held up in Legal somewhere, which is why I went this route as well.
The code I'm asking for is specifically covered under the GNU GPL Open Source license agreement (there's an entry for /kernel specifically in the Legal section of my phone) that states all source code used to generate that file MUST be provided upon request (Section 3). All I am asking for is the kernel source code, nothing more, nothing less. I do fully understand that HTC has a lot of Android modifications that are not open source, or publicly available, but the /kernel file is explicitly required to have source code available as by the terms of the GNU GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least as a VP, he's in a position to comment and help if he so chooses. We'll see where it goes, all I can do...
I'm sure the FSF wouldn't mind knowing what's going on. ESR loves a good shuffle and the FSF COULD get a core member of the dev team or maybe a contributor or even Linus etc to bring it to the attention of Rogers and HTC that there is grounds to pursue further action of they remain non compliant.
I'm just saying there might be other avenues once we've seen how this one plays out. I'd hate to kick a wasp nest if there are valid and honest attempts to rectify the situation calmly. It could very well be just a case of honest ignorance that needs to be schooled back to a level of understanding
SpEnTBoY said:
I'm sure the FSF wouldn't mind knowing what's going on. ESR loves a good shuffle and the FSF COULD get a core member of the dev team or maybe a contributor or even Linus etc to bring it to the attention of Rogers and HTC that there is grounds to pursue further action of they remain non compliant.
I'm just saying there might be other avenues once we've seen how this one plays out. I'd hate to kick a wasp nest if there are valid and honest attempts to rectify the situation calmly. It could very well be just a case of honest ignorance that needs to be schooled back to a level of understanding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly why I haven't contacted them yet, and nobody (that I know of) is considering a lawsuit. I'm certainly not. If my attempts to get through to this VP fail, I have a few other contacts I can put pressure on to get HTC to provide it. Turning it over to the FSF and communities like Slashdot are an option I have considered, and may do at some point if HTC stops acting in good faith, but for now I believe they're either acting in good faith at the higher levels (the email reply from the VP confirms this IMO) or, really good at blowing smoke up my ass. Either way, I'll tolerate for now and have faith.
We totally have to consider that big companies like HTC need some time to turn around so let's all wait patiently for that 28th date and see what comes out of it. Then we can decide where to take this further, thanks alot PhaseBurn, maybe something will come out of this
hellfenix said:
We totally have to consider that big companies like HTC need some time to turn around so let's all wait patiently for that 28th date and see what comes out of it. Then we can decide where to take this further, thanks alot PhaseBurn, maybe something will come out of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Technical support is officially a dead end for this route, too. I just got a voicemail back from HTC's advanced support department saying "Technical Support does not have any way to distribute that [the Roger's kernel source] at the moment, so we've asked for our headquarters to weigh in and see what their official response is." They went on to say I've been put on a tracking list for when they do have their answer from headquarters, and when they have a response from HQ, they'll contact me when they have the official answer. So at least we know bugging tech support about it won't get us anywhere, but it will continue to draw attention to the issue at least... And yes, I have the VM saved as a .wav file just in case it's needed...
HQ would be China (Or Taiwan?) and I'm pretty sure they are the one with the goods so this is good enough news.
HQ is either Houstin, Texas, where HTC America is located, or, Taiwan, where HTC's world wide HQ is...
The HTC Dream platform was designed by HTC Taiwan, and released to HTC America and HTC Europe for sales and support, so I'm not sure if it'd be HTC America or HTC Worldwide that has the code for the Rogers version of the device - there are subtle hardware differences between that device, and the other HTC Dreams released world-wide. I don't know to what extent HTC America and HTC Europe have engineering departments of their own, for instance. If I had to guess, I'd say it'd be HTC Taiwan that has the code we're in need of, and is the group that engineered the Rogers Dream/Magic platforms specifically. Of course that's just speculation on my part. I'm sure you all can speculate as well as I can, I've posted pretty much all I have, and right now, I'm just waiting until the 28th for a reply. I'll post what I get when I get it...
So I got my reply from Jason at HTC just a few minutes ago.
The news is good - very good, but will require some patience...
David,
Thanks for your patience. As a follow-up to our last exchange I have done some research and found the following. As you noted, the Linux kernel in the Rogers version of the HTC Dream and Magic is slightly modified from the standard Android kernel - and we fully understand that granting access to this source code is important to you AND the developer community. Our team is currently putting the proper systems in place on our website to ensure that we have a robust, reliable platform for sharing specific Linux kernels. We expect that this will be in place by the first week of August on the htc..com website. I have asked Hsiao-wen Lin (who heads up my Product Management team) to personally e-mail you the link as soon as it's available). Additionally, from your email, we realize that our customer support team was not completely up to speed on this issue, and we are relaying the necessary information so that they can provide a more informed response to other inquiries like yours. We strive to deliver best-in-class service to all of our stakeholders, so we thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Thanks again for your business!
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So another 2 weeks. I'll post the link as soon as I get it, but at least we have our answer. They will be releasing it.
... did everyone else smile significantly when they read this? I love it when people and companies just 'get it', even if not every link in the chain is up to date. Great news and a serious dept of gratitude for doing the leg work PB!!
Wow, so basically they just didn't think about it and/or waited for someone to ask for it before setting up something on the website. HTC is playing it very safe and I can't blame them.
That is fantastic news, first week of August happens to be next week so it's not that bad of a wait, especially if they intend to implement some sort of source control system on their website.
Hopefully the sources will be integrated in the main Android Kernel assuming they were actually useful and not only meant to block us.
Wow, that's great. Good job and thanks.
just wanted to share this
its preventing me to post the link but u can google it>>>>>Software released for attacking Android phones<<<<<<<<
LAS VEGAS — Two security experts said on Friday they released a tool for attacking smart phones that use Google's Android operating system to persuade manufacturers to fix a bug that lets hackers read a victim's e-mail and text messages.
"It wasn't difficult to build," said Nicholas Percoco, head of Spider Labs, who along with a colleague, released the tool at the Defcon hacker's conference in Las Vegas on Friday.
Percoco said it took about two weeks to build the malicious software that could allow criminals to steal precious information from Android smartphones.
"There are people who are much more motivated to do these things than we are," he added.
The tool is a so-called root kit that, once installed, allows its developer to gain total control of Android devices, which are being activated by consumers at a rate of about 160,000 units per day, according to Google.
"We could be doing what we want to do and there is no clue that we are there," Percoco said.
The test attacks were conducted on HTC's Android-based Legend and Desire phones, but he believed it could be conducted on other Android phones.
The tool was released on a DVD given to conference attendees. Percoco was scheduled to discuss it during a talk on Saturday.
Google and HTC did not immediately return calls for comment.
Some 10,000 hackers and security experts are attending the Defcon conference, the world's largest gathering of its type, where computer geeks mix with federal security officials.
Attendees pay $140 in cash to attend and are not required to provide their names to attend the conference. Law enforcement posts undercover agents in the audience to spot criminals and government officials recruit workers to fight computer crimes and for the Department of Defense.
Organizers of the conference say presenters release tools such as Percoco's root kit to pressure manufacturers to fix bugs.
The tool was released on a DVD given to conference attendees. Percoco was scheduled to discuss it during a talk on Saturday.
Google and HTC did not immediately return calls for comment.
Some 10,000 hackers and security experts are attending the Defcon conference, the world's largest gathering of its type, where computer geeks mix with federal security officials.
Attendees pay $140 in cash to attend and are not required to provide their names to attend the conference. Law enforcement posts undercover agents in the audience to spot criminals and government officials recruit workers to fight computer crimes and for the Department of Defense.
bash78 said:
just wanted to share this
its preventing me to post the link but u can google it>>>>>Software released for attacking Android phones<<<<<<<<
LAS VEGAS — Two security experts said on Friday they released a tool for attacking smart phones that use Google's Android operating system to persuade manufacturers to fix a bug that lets hackers read a victim's e-mail and text messages.
"It wasn't difficult to build," said Nicholas Percoco, head of Spider Labs, who along with a colleague, released the tool at the Defcon hacker's conference in Las Vegas on Friday.
Percoco said it took about two weeks to build the malicious software that could allow criminals to steal precious information from Android smartphones.
"There are people who are much more motivated to do these things than we are," he added.
The tool is a so-called root kit that, once installed, allows its developer to gain total control of Android devices, which are being activated by consumers at a rate of about 160,000 units per day, according to Google.
"We could be doing what we want to do and there is no clue that we are there," Percoco said.
The test attacks were conducted on HTC's Android-based Legend and Desire phones, but he believed it could be conducted on other Android phones.
The tool was released on a DVD given to conference attendees. Percoco was scheduled to discuss it during a talk on Saturday.
Google and HTC did not immediately return calls for comment.
Some 10,000 hackers and security experts are attending the Defcon conference, the world's largest gathering of its type, where computer geeks mix with federal security officials.
Attendees pay $140 in cash to attend and are not required to provide their names to attend the conference. Law enforcement posts undercover agents in the audience to spot criminals and government officials recruit workers to fight computer crimes and for the Department of Defense.
Organizers of the conference say presenters release tools such as Percoco's root kit to pressure manufacturers to fix bugs.
The tool was released on a DVD given to conference attendees. Percoco was scheduled to discuss it during a talk on Saturday.
Google and HTC did not immediately return calls for comment.
Some 10,000 hackers and security experts are attending the Defcon conference, the world's largest gathering of its type, where computer geeks mix with federal security officials.
Attendees pay $140 in cash to attend and are not required to provide their names to attend the conference. Law enforcement posts undercover agents in the audience to spot criminals and government officials recruit workers to fight computer crimes and for the Department of Defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why?
10char
I want the rootkit!!!
link? this is interesting, watch them just be using a modified unrevoked...
Aaaaand no details on how it works, of course...
Lemme guess, you pulled this article off of some sensationalist non-tech for-retards site like... CNN?
drmacinyasha said:
Aaaaand no details on how it works, of course...
Lemme guess, you pulled this article off of some sensationalist non-tech for-retards site like... CNN?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea they posted it on twitter here is the link http://m.cnbc.com/us_news/38493791/2
Sent from my HTC Hero CDMA using XDA App
RANT ON:
While happily chugging along on some of the stuff that I hope to release to you all, I've made a very disturbing discovery, which makes me feel almost like the Big Man turning green. Angry. Pissed. Greatly disappointed!
First some background.
Everyone worth their 'droid knows about the Cease & Desist letter sent to Cyanogen.
Many of us know the same happened to Conflipper from Shipped ROMs.
Rumor has it the same happened to samsung-firmwares.com
Yet it appears there are still people around who like poking at the beehive (yes, killer bees!) that is the phone industry and their armies of lawyers. Things that are GUARANTEED to piss them off BigTime.
I'm not going to drop list of names here, I hope their conscience will speak to them on a quiet night or something.
The morale?
STOP CHARGING MONEY FOR THINGS THAT AREN'T YOURS TO SELL!
HELP PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY CAN ALREADY GET FOR FREE!
Besides being against the rules of most mod/tweak/hack forums out there, charging for someone else's stuff is probably the biggest reason for lawyers to go after websites hosting 'official', 'unofficial', 'leaked' etc. ROMs: lawyers merely have to google for "premium membership", "costs", "donations" etcetera.
Please people, stop doing this, or there will be a time when Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG, Motorola, Nokia and whoever else will simply pull the plug on online firmware updates and start telling people to take their phones to the shop for updating, eFuse and all. Needless to say, the vibe of the modding community will suffer with it.
I was the first (as far as I can tell) to post about Kies test mode, I'm willing to put time and effort in making a tool to allow people to update to and backup ANY firmware using just Kies (no need even for a registry hack), maybe even use Kies update module on non-Windows OSes (well, those that support Wine), help with developing Heimdall, fixing the FM radio, etcetera. Please allow others and me to go on doing this.
So:
- Don't steal others' work only to lock it up and start charging money for using it.
- Be honest and open about your discoveries.
- Be respectful of the services you use, don't hammer them needlessly.
...and the list goes on.
RANT OFF
What's this all about? No need to pay for firmware update requests, use Kies and one or two simple, free tools (coming soon) to get them. Less noise in the forums about the inner workings, which could attract angry lawyers from far away.
That's all.
Well said mista, lets hope some take note.
i mean really?
I thought samsung-firmwares.com got a cease and desist because of having Samsung in the name and make people assume they own and are responsible for the site...thats why Samsung-firmwares made a new site with a different name..
Hmm, why mention Cyanogen's cease and desist letter in a post that has nothing to do with him whatsoever? It's not like Cyanogen was asking money for anything and the reason behind his C&D was entirely different.
As for Samsung-firmwares.com, they had it coming and got what they deserved (and obviously didn't get it at all, looking at their current activities...)
Case_ said:
Hmm, why mention Cyanogen's cease and desist letter in a post that has nothing to do with him whatsoever? It's not like Cyanogen was asking money for anything and the reason behind his C&D was entirely different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, he wasn't asking money. I added him to show that lawyers can be set off barking at anyone involved in hosting OR selling someone elses intellectual property. I should have been more clear about that.
As much as I think that IP is just imaginary property, I cherish the modding community and their great work too much. I'd hate to see the same happening to us.
Hah! Just seen the new Samsung firmwares temporary page. This is just priceless. For those who don't understand Czech, they say there that everyone from Czech republic is blocked from the site and can't even register for their "premium services", because, apparently, "Czech people were spreading our firmwares illegally".
Edit: Sorry. As it was just explained to me by the owner of Samsung firmwares, the site on that URL has nothing to do with them anymore and apparently is someone's idea of a great joke...
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22166606
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
bgaccord said:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22166606
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet every company does that... Samsung may be more since they have lot more to spend than others.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
wow so classy samsung, i had one of their UN46ES7500 led tv and shelled couple thousands on it, it was peice of **** between on/off for no reason to green line down the bottom and the customer no service rude and tell me basically that it is not covered by warranty, thankfully amazon took it back and i bought lg led tv much better.
so yes i would expect they do such a behavior.
sorry if im off topic but i never get samsung phone after that.
---------- Post added at 06:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------
oh and that make me feel better for ordering the one being better phone, samsung scared.
Haha! Looks like LG is doing the same thing? Just joking!!!!!!!
iraqgsm said:
wow so classy samsung, i had one of their UN46ES7500 led tv and shelled couple thousands on it, it was peice of **** between on/off for no reason to green line down the bottom and the customer no service rude and tell me basically that it is not covered by warranty, thankfully amazon took it back and i bought lg led tv much better.
so yes i would expect they do such a behavior.
sorry if im off topic but i never get samsung phone after that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyways internet savy people, non samsung fanboys and smart people are already aware of this. Eversince this was publicized.
iraqgsm said:
wow so classy samsung, i had one of their UN46ES7500 led tv and shelled couple thousands on it, it was peice of **** between on/off for no reason to green line down the bottom and the customer no service rude and tell me basically that it is not covered by warranty, thankfully amazon took it back and i bought lg led tv much better.
so yes i would expect they do such a behavior.
sorry if im off topic but i never get samsung phone after that.
---------- Post added at 06:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------
oh and that make me feel better for ordering the one being better phone, samsung scared.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OT: samsung led tv is never better than LG's, let alone a sony bravia led tv.
Anyway, about the OP, i guess samsung got insecured by the One. Or should i say it's their natural strategy? Now i know why people called them as 'Shamesung'. Shame on them.
This has already been mentioned, try the One mega threads, it was spoke about in detail there.
bgaccord said:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22166606
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This to me shows that clearly the One is the better phone out of the two because otherwise Samsung wouldn't need to be doing such pathetic things..
Majority of reviews from normal consumers on the one are the highest I have ever seen the. So many 5 star ratings from general users is just unreal!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
bgaccord said:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22166606
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha pathetic!!
For all of Samsung's preaching during their Apple lawsuit about how competition should be kept to the marketplace and the quality of the products, this is pretty ironic.
So they cant boost the sale of the SGS3 / SGS4 any other ways due to them being such Crap handsets, instead they have to put other people down? Wow. . . i know there is competition, but thats just rude!
Crab mentality. "If we (Shamesung) can't beat them (HTC, et al) to the top, we'll just drag them down". Ridiculous.
dobknobby said:
So they cant boost the sale of the SGS3 / SGS4 any other ways due to them being such Crap handsets, instead they have to put other people down? Wow. . . i know there is competition, but thats just rude!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't call them crap handsets, they are far from crap. The S3 is an incredible handset. But the S4 is disappointing to say the least in the sense that it's meant to be a big step up from the S3 but it's not really anything more then an S3+
Calling them crap though is fanboyish and stupid
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ----------
angeloalonzo01 said:
Crab mentality. "If we (Shamesung) can't beat them (HTC, et al) to the top, we'll just drag them down". Ridiculous.
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Could be worse, they could haven taken apples approach of 'if we can't best them let's legally slap them in hope it causes them to fail'
Tbh Samsung would have had to pay a monumental amount of people to jade the review scores of the HTC One, it is probably one of the best phones to ever be released and it's reviews and heavy demand are proof of that.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Cheap tactics. Glad BBC wrote about it.
It's certainly in mixed-use forums as well. Before and up until shortly after the S4 presentation, Samsung was getting creamed in forums (like the Verge Android section). Very few people defending them, and I should know - I defended my S3 when I felt it was necessary. At some point around the time the One reviews starting coming in, the focus shifted to bashing HTC.
I've never seen anything like it. A complete polar shift.
godofwar424 said:
I wouldn't call them crap handsets, they are far from crap. The S3 is an incredible handset. But the S4 is disappointing to say the least in the sense that it's meant to be a big step up from the S3 but it's not really anything more then an S3+
Calling them crap though is fanboyish and stupid
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ----------
Could be worse, they could haven taken apples approach of 'if we can't best them let's legally slap them in hope it causes them to fail'
Tbh Samsung would have had to pay a monumental amount of people to jade the review scores of the HTC One, it is probably one of the best phones to ever be released and it's reviews and heavy demand are proof of that.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
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So... do you own a Samsung by Any chance?
I aint a HTC Fanboy, however i do love HTC. I used to like Samsung until the S2 and S3. . . if you have a look at my sig, you can see what samsungs i have owned. . . i called them crap upon personal experiance. . . Its not fanboyish at all. . . that my preferance. . .
I dont troll over the Samsung forums slating them, i dont slate them to anyone else. . . just this time. . . hmm...
Surly Samsung is more since they have lot more to spend than others.There market share is good and there goodwill is stable.
arnolldde said:
Surly Samsung is more since they have lot more to spend than others.There market share is good and there goodwill is stable.
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Huh......what
Seriously, this is the worst thread title I've ever seen on these forums. It reads like spam.
Please update the title to reflect the content of the thread.
The-Last-Hylian said:
This has already been mentioned, try the One mega threads, it was spoke about in detail there.
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And it was a year ago for the SGS3's launch. Here's the detail from the thread that it was discussed in. Using freelancers to promote products virally is risky and a lot of companies don't do it because it's so hard to control. HTC's using viral marketing heavily this year and the same thing could happen to them. In both cases it doesn't mean that Samsung or HTC endorse slamming competitors and most likely the agreements the freelancers sign strictly prohibit it. But the people posting aren't professionals and have no ties to the company their blogging to promote other than a one-time check. No company wants to sell products so badly that they'd intentionally risk their credibility and reputations by instructing their employees or contractors to slam a competitor. In Samsung’s case in TW you’re talking about selling an additional 2MM phone is 2012 when they sold 250MM which is less than 1% of their sales.
jesr said:
There's a huge controversy right know in Taiwan tech forums because of this.
Long story short, Samsung was caught manipulating most popular forums and mass media against Taiwan OEMs through a subsidiary company (http://www.opentide.com.tw). Actions such as flood forums with negative posts, FUD, multiple accounts by the same user ditching on HTC, Acer etc.
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Wow. Pretty distorted representation. What Samsung did and apologized for was using viral and social media and making the opinions expressed by individuals look as if they were personal and not sponsored by Samsung. It was also for the launch of the SGS3 last year. The link you posted contains the 61 page PowerPoint deck prepared by OpenTide, the local marketing company Samsung engaged, explaining the viral campaign and not once in it is a competitor mentioned. It discusses the timing of various local events and the messaging the bloggers should use to hype various features of the SGS3.
The ethics of companies sponsoring viral programs that make the opinions expressed look unsolicited is kind of a grey area. HTC's said they plan on using viral campaigns to promote the One this year so they’re up against the same ethics questions. It's totally possible that some of the individuals posting on behalf of companies go off script and trash competitors but there's a big difference between that and the company sponsoring the program telling them to. Is there anything other than those links you posted that are more current or having anything to do with the One or SGS4?
Here's the action plan from the PowerPoint translated.
Here's a link to the 61 page PPT (in Chinese) if anyone wants to see it.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/73155531/S3_Viral Plan_0629.pptx
jesr said:
You can also see a glimps of this controversy
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The only reason this interested me is that it really didn't make a lot of sense. There are 9MM smartphones a year sold in TW. Because HTC, Asus, and Acer are the "home town" teams it wouldn't seem that Samsung being Korean would ever "own" the market. They had 29% of the TW market last year so what would they have to gain by potentially risking their reputation worldwide in a "controversy?" Selling 2MM more devices in TW when they sold 250MM last year?
There's huge risk for any company in using bloggers to represent the company as you lose control of the message and can't prevent individuals from potentially saying things that reflect poorly on you. The same thing happened in Mainland China with a couple of companies. Paying people to say good things about a company or product isn't wrong per se and with social being so important it's done all the time. Do the people we see in TV commercials actually use or care about the products their pitching? But since bloggers are freelancers and don't work for any specific company it's easy for the messaging to get out of control which is what the examples you posted show. Welcome to the 21st century.
HTC and Samsung UK employees dissed each other on Twitter. I guarantee you the employees weren't speaking for HTC or Samsung corporate and were probably reprimanded. Trashing a competitor outwardly reflects as poorly on the trashor as it does on the trashee. And multibillion dollar companies know and respect that.
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And this is pretty good representation of how the Taiwanese feel about non-Taiwanese phone manufacturers. Can you imagine if the head of the U.S. Treasury proclaimed that all U.S. citizens should buy Motorola phones? Manufacturers importing and competing in the U.S. would go nuts. "Free trade" is just that and protecionism isn't an answer to solving the ills of troubled companies or industries.
"HTC’s operations have weakened, impacting Taiwan’s export figures, resulting in 5 successive months of negative growth and seriously affecting Taiwan’s economic growth. In order to stop the decline, Minister of Economic Affairs Shih Yen-shiang today (the 10th) called for his fellow countrymen to “Affirm and support HTC, starting with loving and using their mobile phones”. This statement prompted backlash on the internet,*PTT*saw countless posts slammed, criticizing HTC for considering themselves to be a mainland Chinese brand and belittling Taiwan, [with netizens] unable to agree with Shih Yen-shiang’s point of view.Shih Yen-shiang revealed that he and the Vice-Economic Minister both use HTC phones, that the government has a close relationship with HTC, provides assistance, and hopes that everyone will unite in supporting domestic companies. Netizens didn’t show any appreciation, wit some people with angrily digging out HTC chairman Cher Wang’s past statements, pointing to her having said “HTC is an indigenous Chinese brand”, so Taiwanese officials now calling for the masses to support a ‘non-Taiwanese brand’ is truly unpersuasive."
http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stor...ent-calls-on-citizens-to-buy-support-htc.html
BarryH_GEG said:
And it was a year ago for the SGS3's launch. Here's the detail from the thread that it was discussed in. Using freelancers to promote products virally is risky and a lot of companies don't do it because it's so hard to control. HTC's using viral marketing heavily this year and the same thing could happen to them. In both cases it doesn't mean that Samsung or HTC endorse slamming competitors and most likely the agreements the freelancers sign strictly prohibit it. But the people posting aren't professionals and have no ties to the company their blogging to promote other than a one-time check. No company wants to sell products so badly that they'd intentionally risk their credibility and reputations by instructing their employees or contractors to slam a competitor. In Samsung’s case in TW you’re talking about selling an additional 2MM phone is 2012 when they sold 250MM which is less than 1% of their sales.
Wow. Pretty distorted representation. What Samsung did and apologized for was using viral and social media and making the opinions expressed by individuals look as if they were personal and not sponsored by Samsung. It was also for the launch of the SGS3 last year. The link you posted contains the 61 page PowerPoint deck prepared by OpenTide, the local marketing company Samsung engaged, explaining the viral campaign and not once in it is a competitor mentioned. It discusses the timing of various local events and the messaging the bloggers should use to hype various features of the SGS3.
The ethics of companies sponsoring viral programs that make the opinions expressed look unsolicited is kind of a grey area. HTC's said they plan on using viral campaigns to promote the One this year so they’re up against the same ethics questions. It's totally possible that some of the individuals posting on behalf of companies go off script and trash competitors but there's a big difference between that and the company sponsoring the program telling them to. Is there anything other than those links you posted that are more current or having anything to do with the One or SGS4?
Here's the action plan from the PowerPoint translated.
Here's a link to the 61 page PPT (in Chinese) if anyone wants to see it.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/73155531/S3_Viral Plan_0629.pptx
The only reason this interested me is that it really didn't make a lot of sense. There are 9MM smartphones a year sold in TW. Because HTC, Asus, and Acer are the "home town" teams it wouldn't seem that Samsung being Korean would ever "own" the market. They had 29% of the TW market last year so what would they have to gain by potentially risking their reputation worldwide in a "controversy?" Selling 2MM more devices in TW when they sold 250MM last year?
There's huge risk for any company in using bloggers to represent the company as you lose control of the message and can't prevent individuals from potentially saying things that reflect poorly on you. The same thing happened in Mainland China with a couple of companies. Paying people to say good things about a company or product isn't wrong per se and with social being so important it's done all the time. Do the people we see in TV commercials actually use or care about the products their pitching? But since bloggers are freelancers and don't work for any specific company it's easy for the messaging to get out of control which is what the examples you posted show. Welcome to the 21st century.
HTC and Samsung UK employees dissed each other on Twitter. I guarantee you the employees weren't speaking for HTC or Samsung corporate and were probably reprimanded. Trashing a competitor outwardly reflects as poorly on the trashor as it does on the trashee. And multibillion dollar companies know and respect that.
And this is pretty good representation of how the Taiwanese feel about non-Taiwanese phone manufacturers. Can you imagine if the head of the U.S. Treasury proclaimed that all U.S. citizens should buy Motorola phones? Manufacturers importing and competing in the U.S. would go nuts. "Free trade" is just that and protecionism isn't an answer to solving the ills of troubled companies or industries.
"HTC’s operations have weakened, impacting Taiwan’s export figures, resulting in 5 successive months of negative growth and seriously affecting Taiwan’s economic growth. In order to stop the decline, Minister of Economic Affairs Shih Yen-shiang today (the 10th) called for his fellow countrymen to “Affirm and support HTC, starting with loving and using their mobile phones”. This statement prompted backlash on the internet,*PTT*saw countless posts slammed, criticizing HTC for considering themselves to be a mainland Chinese brand and belittling Taiwan, [with netizens] unable to agree with Shih Yen-shiang’s point of view.Shih Yen-shiang revealed that he and the Vice-Economic Minister both use HTC phones, that the government has a close relationship with HTC, provides assistance, and hopes that everyone will unite in supporting domestic companies. Netizens didn’t show any appreciation, wit some people with angrily digging out HTC chairman Cher Wang’s past statements, pointing to her having said “HTC is an indigenous Chinese brand”, so Taiwanese officials now calling for the masses to support a ‘non-Taiwanese brand’ is truly unpersuasive."
http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stor...ent-calls-on-citizens-to-buy-support-htc.html
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Click to collapse
Well htc They didn't pay student kids to defend their beloved products, btw I never had an htc phone before but I ordered the one and this article is really disturbing as many of the negative reviews or my htc phone broke or dents or whatever made people think twice even myself, but I guess some of what is been said against htc where not true due paid and non paid fanboys.
（中央社記者劉建邦台北市18日電）35歲許姓男子在知名論壇張貼未上市hTC手機保護貼紙包裝和圖片，警方今天說，接獲宏達電提告，前往逮人，訊後送辦。
刑事局表示，2月間接獲宏達電提告，有民眾在Mobile01網站張貼未上市產品hTC One M8手機保護貼紙包裝及M8手機的圖片外觀，供網友瀏覽和散佈，因侵害公司商業權益，報警處理。
刑事局說，因hTC One M8手機正式發表期間為3月25日，且各手機大廠對新型手機產品競爭激烈，新型手機型式、功能，還未公開發表前，均保密到家。
警方表示，宏達電對未上市hTC One M8手機外型圖檔遭民眾在網路公開散佈、流傳格外重視，才向網友提告，追查不法散佈人士。
刑事局多月偵查後，掌握許男犯案具體事證，4月15日持新北地院核發搜索票前往許嫌位在新北市板橋區住所搜索。
警方當場查扣犯案電腦主機、含侵權圖檔的手機等證據，訊後把許男移送新北地檢署偵辦。
刑事局呼籲民眾應尊重智慧財產權，切勿在網路論壇中公佈未公開訊息以免觸法
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translate
( Central News Agency reporters Liu Jian Bang Taipei 18 (Xinhua) ) 35 -year-old man surnamed Xu at the well-known forum posting unlisted hTC phone protection sticker packaging and pictures, police said today received HTC sue , to arrest people, hearing evacuation do .
CIB said indirectly for February sue by HTC , there are people in Mobile01 website posted unlisted phone protection products hTC One M8,M8 phone sticker packaging and appearance of images for users to browse and spread against the company due to commercial interests , alarm processing .
CIB said that during the phone because hTC One M8 was officially released on March 25 , and each of the new mobile phone handset manufacturers product competition, new mobile phone type, function , has not been published before , are confidential home.
Police said on HTC phones unlisted hTC One M8 public appearance was at drawing public distribution network , spread extra attention before they sue to users , who traced the illegal spread .
After months of investigation CIB , master Xu male offenders solid evidence , held April 15 in North District Court issued a new search warrant to promise too is located in New Taipei Itabashi home search .
Police seized the spot mainframe computer crimes , including mobile phones and other evidence of infringement drawing , after hearing the men transferred to the new North promised Prosecutors Office for investigation.
CIB urged the public to respect the intellectual property rights , do not publish the message in order to avoid conflict with the law are not public forums in the Internet
... what?
Can someone who can read the actual chinese please provide a summary? lol
It sounds like HTC filed suit against a guy for leaking the HTC One M8 prior to the official introduction.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Leaking things that could help with s-off????