Guys and gals, I hope you all follow the General forum here at XDA-Dev
If you don’t (PLEASE DO FOLLOW IT! I only post most of my articles in there and, generally, do not post announcements in model-specific subforums – you don’t know what you miss!), and would like to know everything one can know about remotely controlling desktop Windows PC’s from Pocket PC’s, read THIS ARTICLE - I'm absolutely sure you'll find it useful!
Brilliant, Menneisyys.
Another very detailed report, that I have not read yet but just scanned through quickly. Thought it worth reporting my (our) thanks for your time, effort and incredible attention to detail.
Grateful Thanks
Mike
yea Menneisyys u have no idea, how much we appreciate ur time an efforts.
keep writing =)
WOW!! AWESOME work!! I can't find the words to say how much I appreciate it
Wow... just posting to record my shock and awe! Great writeup... They pay people to do (a much worse job at) that you know
Thanks guys! I really love feedback like this
Amazing article. Very detailed, really appreciate.
I have Remote Administrator (RAdmin) installed on my PC, been 2 years have had problem accessing it from another PC. Now I'm still fickle minded about switching to VNC. RAdmin was great over the net and lan.
awesome work indeed. Before reading your post I had heard about LogMeIn, but never did the effort to check it. Now I use the Pro version and it is soooo cooooool...
Exactly what I needed. Thank you once again for your effort.
Thanks for the help its all totally appreciated
Thank you guys; btw, I've also reposted the article to the XDA-Dev Wiki.
UPDATE (01/05/2007): Readers’ feedback:
XDA-Developers 1 2, AximSite, BrightHand, FirstLoox, HowardForums.
AximSite frontpage; Clinton Fitch's recommendation in microsoft.public.pocketpc.
In this post, you mention that XP does not support concurrent terminal sessions.
There is a way to achieve this though; in the last beta of SP2, concurrent terminal sessions were allowed but this feature was removed in the final release of SP2. By replacing the termserv.dll with the termserv.dll from that final beta and adjusting some settings, concurrent sessions become a possibility agaian (with a limitation of 3 concurrent users: 1 local + 2 remote).
Here is the procedure on how to do it:
http://riccardo.raneri.it/blog/eng/index.php/2006/04/24/windows-xp-multiuser-remote-desktop/
I haven't tested it yet with my WM5 device, but it works perfectly when I run a rdp session from my laptop to my desktop.
Bear in mind that the .dll that comes from the last SP2 beta can get replaced by Windows update; should it stop working after an update, just replace it again.
Jörg
V J said:
In this post, you mention that XP does not support concurrent terminal sessions.
There is a way to achieve this though; in the last beta of SP2, concurrent terminal sessions were allowed but this feature was removed in the final release of SP2. By replacing the termserv.dll with the termserv.dll from that final beta and adjusting some settings, concurrent sessions become a possibility agaian (with a limitation of 3 concurrent users: 1 local + 2 remote).
Here is the procedure on how to do it:
http://riccardo.raneri.it/blog/eng/index.php/2006/04/24/windows-xp-multiuser-remote-desktop/
I haven't tested it yet with my WM5 device, but it works perfectly when I run a rdp session from my laptop to my desktop.
Bear in mind that the .dll that comes from the last SP2 beta can get replaced by Windows update; should it stop working after an update, just replace it again.
Jörg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the report; I've played a lot with this hack and found out that you can't use the same account - that is, you can't co-edit the same remote session. Are you sure you connected with a (locally) already-connected user?
Updated version posted; for the time being (because of the hurdles involved with cutting the article into 10k slices), to http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1571&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 only.
No, that is not possible (didn't think I gave that impression).
There is a way of creating a second acount that uses a different loginname (so it can be used concurrently) but shares the profile (folders + startmenu) with another account, but I haven't gone that far. I would have to search for it in case you are interested.
Jorg
V J said:
No, that is not possible (didn't think I gave that impression).
There is a way of creating a second acount that uses a different loginname (so it can be used concurrently) but shares the profile (folders + startmenu) with another account, but I haven't gone that far. I would have to search for it in case you are interested.
Jorg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, with the hack, it (logging in from other accounts) does work - but, still, there won't be a way of parallelly accessing the same desktop, cursor, app windows.
Pocket PC-to-desktop PC remote control news
In the Bible of Accessing your desktop PC from your Pocket PC, I’ve elaborated on how you can access your PC from anywhere using your Pocket PC.
Now, there are some updates / welcome news:
First, Citrix offers GoToMyPC for $8.25/month ($99 a year) to ex-GoToMyPC users (users that used the service a trial period that, after that, didn’t subscribe to the commercial version). This price (which is half of the regular price) is starting to be pretty good if you definitely need the solution that consumes the least bandwidth.
That is, if you would like to subscribe to GoToMyPC, it’s the best to let the trial period to run out, wait some time and, then, you’ll be offered the 50% rebate.
Second, Parys Technografx, the developer of by far the best VNC client for the Pocket PC, hasn’t been busy; they have just come out with version 1.2 of PT Pocket Office with a lot of welcome additions / fixes I’ve asked for; for example,
Auto selection of a compatible encoding e.g. if PT Pocket Office is set to request "tight" but the server does not support it then the first compatible encoding will automatically be used instead - e.g. "Hextile" with RealVNC.
The "Server Scaling On" or "Server Scaling Off" option has been changed to "PTeSVNC/UltraVNC" or "RealVNC/TightVNC" and if a connection is attempted to RealVNC or TightVNC or another VNC server without server-scaling when the option is set to "PTeSVNC/UltraVNC" then PT Pocket Office now automatically detects this and adjusts accordingly.
It will now connect and work with RealVNC4.x provided that the "RFB 3.3" option is selected in the "Legacy" options for the RealVNC server. (The developer promises to make it possible to connect to RealVNC servers in the 4.x mode in the near future.)
The file transfer works OK for you with the latest UltraVNC.
Also note that I’m working VERY hard on the multimedia remote control roundup, comparing ALL the available titles. Hope I’ll be able to publish it in this or next week.
I've finished updating the Remote Access Bible with brand new, never-before-published-by-anyone comparative information on the new, built-in, excellent Remote Desktop Mobile client in Windows Mobile 6.
Now that the new, 4.0 version of well-known, useful remote controller application PPC Tablet supports remote desktop access, I've thoroughly benchmarked & compared it to the alternatives in my Remote Access Bible. (Note that the article itself will only be updated tomorrow; now it's "only" the heart of the article, the comparison chart has been updated with PPC Tablet 4.0-related info. (Yes, before you ask: I'll really soon publish my multimedia remote controller roundup; I've found it useful to publish the strictly remote desktop-related PPC Tablet 4-related info before finally publishing the next article.)
It's really worth checking it out if you'd like to know how it compares to the alternatives and in what scenarios it should be used (it has major, mostly bandwidth usage-related problems; still, in some cases, it might turn out to be useful).
Finally, I also recommend this remote desktop access-related post in the microsoft.public.pocketpc newsgroup; it may turn out to be useful for many.
At last, a REALLY decent RDP (Terminal Server) client for WM5!
In the Remote Desktop Access Bible, I've promised I would announce when the excellent folks over at H/PC Factor manage to port the excellent Terminal Server client from WindowsCE .NET to Windows Mobile.
Fortunately, the porting attempts have been successful (albeit not at H/PC Factor but at XDA-Developers); see this thread for more information. Note that the port ONLY runs on WM5, NOT on previous operating systems.
Make sure you check it out if you need a DECENT RDP client (instead of the, to put it mildly, far-from-perfect built-in Terminal Services Client) on your WM5 Windows Mobile device.
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
i don't care what they call it, as long as it's something worth upgrading to. other than my tablets, i have no reason upgrade any other computer i own or use to win8. windows 7 works fine for now.
Nice opinion piece, i couldn't care less what they call it.
As long as they don't A, force us to use metro all of the time or B, put the old start menu back in again ill upgrade to it.
SharpnShiny said:
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think - well, actually hope (so there's personal bias) - that the Windows team will come to its senses. A hybrid OS that runs on desktop/mobile and unifying look and feel was a good idea on paper. The problem was in trying to nudge desktop users to use Metro without touch capability. And that's where they are going to lose a HUGE segment of business.
Business wise most companies think 8 is another Vista and when XP reaches EOS they'll go to 7 and hope for the best with 9 - and it's coming. Historically Windows gets no more than 2 major updates in a life cycle and with 7 only getting one (so far) it's fair to suspect that Blue (8.1) may be it. Try to get more user approval on it and hope for the best with a new version. They could clean up 8, add a true "desktop/touch/hybrid" look/feel and slap a Windows 9 label on it... but here's hoping they'll spend the next 12-14 months really deciding what they want to do forward.
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. I'm a believe of progress, I find win 8 much more efficient as you already mentioned, unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like. Try learn and love... Simple
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
Windows 9 or 99 - not a whole lot of difference
A side comment to the overarching theme of this thread: Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like. Certainly it has zero bearing on what features will go in.
It's almost certain that at the same time during Windows 8.1 development, the decision hadn't yet been made as to whether call the OS Windows 9, Windows 8.1 or what have you (hence the codename "Windows Blue").
Another good illustration of how naming doesn't mean a whole lot in Microsoft is the evolution from WinNT 6.0 to 6.1. On the client side the move was Vista -> 7 ("major" update), on the server line it was Server 2008 -> Server 2008 R2 ("small" update). But the magnitude of changes was of course very similar between both product lines.
Bottom line: don't get hung up on the naming aspect--it's like reading tea leaves. Look to the core of the product.
Before all the turmoil--reorg, lameduck CEO, Nokia acquisition--I was pretty confident of seeing Win9, as 8.1 was basically a polished 8, and 8 wasn't going anywhere. An 8.2 would only prolong the ignominy.
To have Win9, MS has to have an idea of how to substantively improve on Win8 (that users will buy into.) All present indicators are that that direction doesn't exist. The reorg will paralyze any new initiative, as will Ballmer's lameduck status. And digesting Nokia on top of those...well, turmoil would be putting it kindly.
There should be a new CEO next year (probably Elop, yuck). Lumias will be rebadged, and merged into the Surface effort. But integration and reorg for a company of MS' size will take 2-3 years at least. That almost certainly means we'll see another incremental Win release.
I expect 8.1's reception will be marginally better than 8, mainly because of XP's EOL and replacement purchases for those skipping over 8. The hardware (Haswell, Bay Trail) is better and will also help. But PC's glory days are over, more so because of MS' abandonment and ineptitude than from anything else. Not only on the software side, but hardware as well. OEMs are jumping off the listing ship, even faster now that MS is set to be a full-on competitor.
So how to fix Win 8.x within a year, with no new direction, and a paralyzed company? More TLC to its fast-shrinking cash cow, the desktop, would be a start. As before, I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" that again emphasize on desktop, perhaps with Metro as an optional component. I think a 1-yr allotment for this is doable, even given the dire circumstances. Metro, or Win Mobile (refurb'ed), can be an "essential" add-on, or a separate standalone. The step would be a good holding action.
This would require a revisit of MS' "one-size-fits-all" UI tenet, which isn't succeeding anyway. Metro on its own merits is nothing special, hence its force-feeding to Win users. But neither lame-duck Ballmer nor (likely) Elop has the vision to make a fundamental change. Elop did not turn Nokia around.
We'll see what comes out of the blender next year. For this year, I'll be upgrading to 8.1 and using it strictly as a desktop OS, ie an updated Win7. Metro will be excised, and all my tablet/phone needs will be (have been) met by Android. From what I see of the upcoming Win tabs, they all suck. High prices compared to Android, desktop apps that don't run well on tabs, and paltry selection of mobile apps (that are locked to MS' app store).
Anybody running 8.1 RTM (not RT) yet?
>unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like
Just have to comment on this. Get off the blame game shtick. MS' travails are its own doing, not from any "hater conspiracy" theory. Stop contributing to the childish squabbles.
>I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices.
I can't agree. Metro is still immature, as is MS' notion of mobile devices. Simple case-in-point: 8 does not support portrait use, most apps are landscapes only. 8.1's purported support doesn't compensate for the fact that current and most upcoming tablets will be 16:9. Try using one in portrait and see the awkwardness.
Metro has many other deficits, which I've pointed out before. Landscape orientation (and scrolling) is bad for long lists, among other things, which are best done vertically. Ever wondered why there still isn't a good file manager for Metro? Not to say that Android and iOS are perfect. Both have their foibles. But they're already far ahead in share and 3rd-party support.
>Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like.
What we're talking about isn't the numbering per se, but whether there'll be a substantive change for the next Win rev. The 8.2 vs 9 is a shorthand.
As far as substantive changes go, I can't predict the future, but I can say this. A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered. So it's very possible that an incremental release focusing on making these few problematic areas right could be a major hit.
A common perception is that Windows 8 is somehow so abhorrent that only a total rollback or a total redesign can possibly save the ship. I don't think it's an accurate assessment.
Its not a Blame game, its an observation from dealing with the public, in many cases for no justifiable reason or argument without substance a large portion of the geeky public/profession (note I am one as well) seem hell bent on slagging off anything MS.
It has its faults just as any organization does but some much of the tripe an miss information I have to wade through just to get to the root cause of the problem is staggering!! So no, its not about trying to partake in a childish game, its about trying to stop people being misled by so called experts and to make informed decisions based on fact
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
>A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Win8's issue isn't about bugs, but more fundamental: its design and structure, which were radically changed to fit the one-size-fits-all scheme. Users have not warmed to this direction, and at this point I can't see any change to Metro that can make touch use viable for desktops. While some here may differ on the finer points (or affiliation), it's safe to say that none here has yet to use Metro exclusively as a desktop replacement. It's almost a year since release. There are no more excuses.
>Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered.
What's "bad" or "good" is an opinion. What's not opinion is Win8--ergo, Metro--adoption rate. It's abysmal. One may be an optimist and hope for salvation in 8.1 (or perhaps 8.2). MS certainly doesn't think 8.x will do so great, else it wouldn't have opted for the reorg, Ballmer wouldn't have been kicked out, and Nokia buy wouldn't be a necessity.
Put another way, it's not any one person's opinion that matters, but the collective opinions of Windows users. They've spoken, and I don't see any miracle on the horizon to change their tune.
People need to get the following in their head:
1) Desktop isn't going anywhere, stop dramatizing over the desktop vs metro bullcrap
2) Windows 8 does not force you to use metro, just the start screen, which is miles better than the old start menu.
3) Windows 8 metro works perfectly fine with keyboard and mouse. The R word is pretty much suitable for anyone who can't make the jump from start button to start screen. If you are that R, then you need to quit using a computer, that stuff aint for you.
4)Neither metro, nor the desktop will disappear in any subsequent versions of windows. Stop fearing/hoping.
5) it will probably take around 2 years until the next version of windows (9, momo, kiki whatever) comes along. Windows 8.1 is more like a service pack for windows 8.
garwynn said:
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper
I am running 8.0 not 8.1. Toolbar is working fine here. I also prefer a clean desktop, always have done, I do have My Computer, recycle bin and my account folder otherwise its empty.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
The search function has actually changed between 8.0 and 8.1. In 8.0 start typing at metro it starts searching your PC by default but segregates results in apps, settings and files. Most desktop applications with a proper installer get listed under apps, a few things like putty or minecraft which dont have proper installers get lumped into files. In 8.1 it goes back to the old windows 7 style search without segregating the results. Both still have individual searches for store, bing etc (actually, here on 8.0 google chrome is listed as a searchable app too which is kinda neat, never noticed that until now). I find it incredibly quick to find things this way, just hit the windows key and type "beam" and its already listed Start BeamNG.Drive and Uninstall BeamNG.Drive as launchable applications, if I was searching for minecraft (pinned to start) I would need an extra click unfortunately but on 8.1 I wouldn't.
My only major metro complaints are lack of apps, lack of serial port access in the WinRT API (whether that be hardware, USB or bluetooth, not that windows distinguishes), blocking of localhost TCP or UDP connections (or any other network connection) and that control panel and file browsing should also be available in metro if metro is to be a viable system. On this machine yeah, perhaps I would rather use control panel in desktop mode, but it should be available on metro too. Lack of apps isn't something microsoft can do much about, that is entirely down to 3rd parties. I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't say you meant it to me, just that there are a lot of people who would disagree with your thoughts. Please keep in mind - from a TS perspective we are outliers. From a corporate standpoint they have to look at the lowest common denominator - the users who muddle through using a computer just to get the everyday things done. They don't have a choice but to do that or not work. Not everyone even in Gen Y or the Millennials are tech savvy. (Women are sadly still behind the curve, something I'm going to make sure my kids avoid. Knowledge is power IMO.)
Your second paragraph is mainly targeting, again, a different segment than who I'm talking about. My concern is with the users that have box, wired KB/mouse and one screen and need it as simple as possible to do their job. These folks - some of which I am related to - are quite happy with their 2009 Core 2 Quad PC because it plays video and lets them browse the internet. Even if I build them another PC - and I did on the cheap recently - they have yet to touch it over the old system because they're comfortable with it. Ironic because you solve all their complaints and they still stick with what they know.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
daniel-s said:
Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
garwynn said:
What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
garwynn said:
Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I have no problem using a serial port from windows 8 desktop. Microsoft just don't allow its usage from a windows 8 app.
My desktop PC which isnt even 2 years old does actually have both a full RS232 port and parallel port. I also have an FTDI cable (USB > 3.3v TTL serial) which works fine with my laptop, desktop and the pi itself actually (full FTDI drivers under raspbian and windows 8). Both of my arduinos are arduino nano's so also use an FTDI chip (using the same drivers as each other and the cable I have). One of my other microcontrollers is a bit of a pain but you can get it working with windows 8 too, have to disable driver enforcement before you can install them. Regardless, all 3 microcontrollers and on my desktop its native port are listed in device manager as usable COM ports, all of them work fine too.
One place you will still regularly find a DB9-RS232 port is scientific hardware. Many sensors/probes/data collection devices for use with a PC communicate via serial. Older devices (and a few new ones) from a full RS232 connector, some now use 3.3v or 5v instead and a few are advertised as being USB but in reality have USB>serial adaptors of some sort contained within.
Many android devices have a serial port available (usually 3.3v) via the headphone jack (often just sticking a resistor between mic and ground to trigger left and right audio function changes) or USB port (similar technique as the headphones) or more rarely the microSD
If anyone is interested in the podcast I mentioned, Windows Weekly, the URL is: http://leoville.tv/podcasts/ww.xml
In the lastest episode, Mary Jo Foley of here: http://www.zdnet.com/topic-windows/
tends to tell what's going on inside Microsoft. If you listened to back episodes she was talking about Blue right after 8 was released, she spills details really early and they do come true.
The other major host is Paul Thurott on the podcast, who writes here: http://www.winbeta.org/
The last thing they said, just as e.mote calculated, was that the company is in disaray and will slow down significantly since the Nokia acquisition and that it could have been an 8.2 but for a brand refresh they could skip to 9. 9 in that case would be a mixture of returning some of the key 7 features and polishing 8. I'll post here if there's any more, same if you guys know anything! I'm interested to see how this develops.
I remember going to the Win 7 launch at the time. One of the first things the Micro guy said on stage was that 7 was 'Vista fixed'. I couldn't believe he said that on stage. So instead of a fixer service pack they jumped to 7 and it was partially a brand refresh. Who knows now?
Hi all--
As the posting suggests I am going to write a tutorial on how to install Linux on your OPO
I scoured the internet and (albeit my scouring sucks) could find very little in regards to installing Linux on the OPO (though multirom may have support for it some day, it currently does not). I got this from reading several how to linux pages which didn't work for me until I fiddled around with it.
I am taking a networking class for my CCNA and needed a cisco emulator, but there are none available for android, and I stubbornly refuse to buy a new laptop because I think a phone with a 2.8Ghz quadcore hooked up to my keyboard and miracast should suffice for ALL computing needs.
Benefits of linux/ubuntu:
have many more resources available (most software has a Windows/Mac/Linux build but not always an android desktop environment (or even an app for some software).
some things that I use it for:
GIMP
GNS3 (a cisco router emulator)
Requirements:
Internet, ~4GB+ of space, ROOT!
Apps:
Linux Deploy
androidVNC
Steps:
1.
Install apps
2.
open Linux Deploy
DO NOT CLICK START YET
open the settings (either the funny download button, or by opening menu to settings)
choose your distro (I used debian wheezy, and also ubuntu trusty successfully)
I don't change any of the default directories here (I had trouble when I did, though installing various .img files worked ok)
scroll down to the startup section and about midway down is "GUI settings"
Open it and change anything you want: I swap the width and height, because I use my phone in landscape mode on my external monitor/miracast
DPI-- if you set it to 480 (stock) the font is good, but everything else is too small for some reason (like windows scroll down further than the bottom of the screen), so I usually leave it around 200-
also near the bottom of the startup section is "custom mounts" this is really useful if you want to edit things on your phone's storage (like in gimp). Clicking this will make a mount "0" [default] available inside the gui which [by default] is your sdcard. (open file explorer: /mnt/0)
When you're finished with your settings, go back to the top and click install
this should make supersu ask for permission; click yes, of course!
now it goes through a big spiel of creating an img and install Linux which can take a while depending on your internet speed, my not so good internet took about 10 minutes.
Next click Start, then yes I really meant start...
Now, you should see the last few lines here and look for VNC: ####
Usually, it's 5900-- remember this number
Look in the top left of your screen for an IP address.
It usually reads 192.168.###.###
remember that number as well
Sometimes it helps to write it down ^_^
3.
now go to androidVNC
click never bother me again
fill out the form [brackets are suggestions] "quotes are exact!"
nickname: [whatever you want]
password: "changeme"
address: [the "192.168.###.###" from linuxdeploy]
port: [the "####" from linux deploy... I don't know if I changed it on accident and didn't notice but I feel like androidVNC changes this sometimes, should be 5900]
then click connect and you should be officially in the linux gui! The graphics suck, but no one uses linux for games anyway!
if you just realized what I meant by "use in landscape mode" or just want to change some settings:
close androidVNC
go back to linuxdeploy
press stop
go to settings, gui settings as before and change whatever you want
scroll back up and click reconfigure (not reinstall, because that would take forever)
it does some stuff
you get bored waiting a little
you click start again
reconnect
if you disconnected from your network, you may have to change your IP address (displayed top left of linuxdeploy)
4.
Installing something in linux
I'm a newb, and so I didn't know this: (in the linux environment inside androidVNC)
open start (bottom left)
accessories
lxterminal
this brings a command prompt into view
the magic command is:
"sudo apt-get install [the thing you want]"
everything else is magic >_>
example:
"sudo apt-get install gimp"
would install gimp for you
once it is done (which may take forever depending on your caffeine level), you can open it up and do all kinds of stuff
Hope this helps someone. If it does, consider clicking thanks (I'm not sure what it does yet either).
for 1337 linux users and grammarians: this guide is for us newbs who care more about getting to what we want than grammar correctness or being smart (because unfortunately, not every gets to be). ^_^ so please don't correct my grammar, I'll just ignore you (because).
Great guide, I might give it a go sometime to put Linux Mint on my phone. Just a suggestion, maybe provide links for Linux Deploy and AndroidVNC to make it easier for people to get them.
Transmitted via Bacon
VNCing into a Linux chroot doesn't count and is generally an awful experience.
There's really no point to do it anymore when the Freedreno driver will give you native graphic acceleration.
what freedreno? I'll check it out >_>
Freedreno is a GPU driver for running Linux on Adreno type GPUs.
Using that for graphic output could be a bit troublesome though if you need to use Android and the Linux desktop distro at the same time.