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I just bought a new Logitech mouse with tons of customizable buttons on it, and it got me thinking...what if you could use your PPC as a mouse for your PC? That would be the ultimate in customizability!! Think of it...not only would you have a bunch of hard buttons to play with, but you could also have a customized screen for whichever app has the focus on your PC!
I am nowhere near advanced enough to do this, nor do I know if it's even possible...just throwing it out there as an idea for whoever wants to take up the challenge. I figure it could work on most devices because the camera and flash LED are on the opposite side from the screen and buttons, and BT could be the wireless link. Heck, for that amount of customizability in a mouse I'd even settle for a wired USB version :wink:.
Well enough fantasizing for today...
you're talking about using the camera as the optical sensor?
you'd need it on a special mouse mat that emits light of some kind, and I doubt the feedback would be quick enough.
and i wouldn't fancy pushing my expensive xda around on the desk like a mouse.
Right, I was thinking of the camera as the optical sensor, and the flash LED as the light source. I have a XV6700/Apache, and when I turn on the camera and the flash and set it down on my desk, the screen isn't completely dark because the camera isn't flush against the surface...there's still enough space for light from the LED to reach the lens. Obviously this would vary from device to device...but even in cases where it's completely dark, you could put the "mouse" on top of a few mm of clear plastic or plexiglas to give the LED enough room to bounce the light over. Actually, this option might be desirable as it would address your concern about pushing your device around and getting scratches on it.
In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, using plastic/plexiglas might be better for battery life too. Instead of having the flash stay on all the time, the "mouse" could use the ambient room light to detect initial movement, which in turn would trigger a "wake event" for the flash, and then obviously the flash could be timed to turn off after so many seconds of being idle.
I know speed would likely be an issue as far as feedback goes. Sure, it wouldn't be as quick as my new Logitech laser mouse, but in video mode the camera (at least on the Apache) can go up to 19 fps...so perhaps it would be doable. Obviously you're not going to use Photoshop or play Quake with the thing . I was just thinking added convenience for everyday usage.
well all optical mice i've used have gon crazy on shiny surfaces
their cams are even made directly for this purpos
so i would think using the pda as a mouse would mean it would go even more crazy on a shiny surface
try search i recall posts about this in the past
Issues
light souce: prolong usage of you flash is bad. The life span of the flash may be different for different devices, but I'm pretty sure HTC doesn't give you a nice LED flash to be used for more than 30 seconds per usage. There are reports of 'dying' flash after using it as flashlight.
camera (major issue): phone camera is a fix lense camera (there are a few new Nokia/Sony model that arent). Such camera is not able to take clear picture of close distance object. Try taking a picture of something at a range of 3 inches , at best possible light condition. You won't get a decent picture. Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
It is a good idea though.
just an idea, but what about just using it as a touch pad??
dahquim
Very expensive mouse :lol:
Just get an optical RF mouse.. so much cheaper..
Come to think of it, better get a bluetooth mouse that you can use with both your PC and PPC!
Hmm, I don't know. I just imagined a Universal used as a mouse. Not a pretty picture.
Any way, as for the touch pad idea, it's fairly easy to implement, but it doesn't have the resolution to handle even blow average PC screen which is 800x600 pixels.
hanmin said:
Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
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OK, so let's say you have a clear glass desk and you attach a board underneath it at a distance of 3 inches so it can focus... j/k
levenum said:
as for the touch pad idea, it's fairly easy to implement, but it doesn't have the resolution to handle even blow average PC screen which is 800x600 pixels.
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I don't think dahquim meant "touch pad" to mean "tablet PC" or a remote touch-screen clone of your PC monitor (you can do that with LogMeIn). I think he meant simply losing the "mouse" functionality and keeping the ability to have the device's screen display "soft buttons" that could execute commands and that would change depending on whichever app has the focus on your PC. That would somewhat relieve one of having to remember different keyboard shortcuts for each different PC app you use. Same idea as the Optimus Keyboard but on a smaller scale.
touchpad.. ?
Touchpad idea is nice - it could work just like touchpads on laptop; ie. moving finger on mobile device screen causes mouse cursor to move on PC screen, tapping mobile device screen causes mouse click.... who'll implement this ? ;-)
hanmin said:
Issues
light souce: prolong usage of you flash is bad. The life span of the flash may be different for different devices, but I'm pretty sure HTC doesn't give you a nice LED flash to be used for more than 30 seconds per usage. There are reports of 'dying' flash after using it as flashlight.
camera (major issue): phone camera is a fix lense camera (there are a few new Nokia/Sony model that arent). Such camera is not able to take clear picture of close distance object. Try taking a picture of something at a range of 3 inches , at best possible light condition. You won't get a decent picture. Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
It is a good idea though.
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hanmin was right pointing these issues. i'll add some more, from a developer's point of view:
-so you want to have this as a wireless device: think of the power consumption: on one hand you need the camera to be on, with the led, and also a wireless connection for transmitting the data like BT or WiFi.. The baterry wont last long
-even if we cant get the camera to focus at nearly 1-2mm, we could still detect movement of some kind (so the idea would work..in a way or another :roll: ). but please note: there are tens of types of devices, you cant get to make the trick for all.
-it wouldnt be very precise: did you even tried to create an icon? you need to tap over the right pixel, do you think it will work with this?
-ok so you're a fanatic gamer : poor device and poor you, on one hand you'll ruing the device, on the other you'll go nuts because... : slow reaction times, low accuracy...
I see that you've thought about the idea of creating a touchpad out of the pocketpcs. I worked on such a project once. It was indeed interesting. The only problem was that: (issues again)
-the screen is not so sensitive to finger pressure as a touchpad is
-you'll mostly have to use the stilus
But at least this approach is functional.
Regards,
Radu
Yes was thinking more the "set of buttons on [email protected] that let you do quick and easy thinkgs to whatever program your using.
For example, how about being able to switch virtual desktops or having a list of programs on the ppc screen that you switch between... a la Alt-Tab??
just ideas, but of course would be completely customisable (macro buttons)
dahquim
Looks like this guy got the concept up and running on his Nokia...
http://www.pyrofersprojects.com/nokiamouse.php
i couldnt find a thread that explains exactly what it was... is it hardware or software...
hardware. I think its a type of accelerometer.
my wife is also interested in this.
so my phone wouldnt have it then.. doesnt the camera have some kinda sensor like it in it?
your wife needs to get a diamond or touch pro...
andason said:
my wife is also interested in this.
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gotvitamink said:
hardware. I think its a type of accelerometer.
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As far as I know it IS an accelerometer. Same thing I would say. Don't have much knowledge, but it's basically the same technology the iPhone uses. It can detect how you're holding your phone. Yes, you could use your front camera on your phone as a accelerometer and it's been asked before, but no one attempted to do so since it would consume too much battery.
Kraize92 said:
As far as I know it IS an accelerometer. Same thing I would say. Don't have much knowledge, but it's basically the same technology the iPhone uses. It can detect how you're holding your phone. Yes, you could use your front camera on your phone as a accelerometer and it's been asked before, but no one attempted to do so since it would consume too much battery.
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yea i wasn't really sure if it differed from an accelerometer. I used google and wikipedia and i couldn't find anything on G-sensor, and I didn't find G-sensor under the accelerometer wikipedia entry.
but yea, basically the technology that iPhone uses.
someone should do it...
its an accelerometer which is hardware to do what the iphone does where when u turn it to its side its screen also changes to the sideways orientation.
It detects which way the phone is facing and can detect acceleration in 3 axis.
petard said:
It detects which way the phone is facing and can detect acceleration in 3 axis.
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Ah, there is the more technical answer. It can detect movement. Basically you use the 3 axis which detects movement in all directions. You tilt left and right and you tilt up and down. I knew that just didn't know the technical meaning lol.
In most cases the G-Sensor is simply a small metal ball laying in a tub with several contacts. When you turn or move your phone, the ball moves also, connecting some of these contacts to anothers. So the phone can figure out how you hold it (portrait or landscape, upside down etc.) and can switch the screen or perform different actions. Its called G-Sensor because the ball is driven by G-Force.
What is G-Sensor ?
A G sensor is usually an accelerometer. It measures the forces that act on it during changes in velocity. The wiki article below has more details.
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerometer
Dennis78 said:
In most cases the G-Sensor is simply a small metal ball laying in a tub with several contacts. When you turn or move your phone, the ball moves also, connecting some of these contacts to anothers. So the phone can figure out how you hold it (portrait or landscape, upside down etc.) and can switch the screen or perform different actions. Its called G-Sensor because the ball is driven by G-Force.
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False. It's a three (and probably sometimes two) axis MEMS accelerometer - there are a few companies making those, but probably the most popular ones are analog devices' ADXL series. Similar device sits in wiimote (just as a secondary motion detection system, the more accurate one is camera+sensor bar).
Because these chips became really cheap recently, and are way more accurate, reliable, and robust than any mechanical sensors (in the same price ans size range), they're being shoved in every possible device You can find them in digital cameras (used to recognize if the photo is portrait or landscape and tag it accordingly), in hard drives (to detect mechanical shocks and protect the hdd by parking its head), in laptops (usually same as above plus to detect when the computer is falling down or other dangerous situations and protect the hard drives), in cell phones (you probably know this one's uses), in toys, portable media players, and lots of other stuff.
It detects which way the phone is facing and can detect acceleration in 3 axis.
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A more precise answer is that it detects acceleration in three axes, and from these values phone's orientation can be calculated.
[MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION]
It's rather simple - when the phone is normally handled (it's not free falling and it's not being waved around), the dominant acceleration detected by the accelerometer is the gravitational acceleration (-9.81m/s^2 in vertical axis). So, if most of the time acceleration detected along the vertical axis of the phone is bigger than one detected along horizontal axis, the phone is being held in landscape position. If the situation is reversed, it's held in portrait orientation. If the acceleration is largest in the third axis (tangent to the screen), it means that the phone is being held nearly horizontally or it's lying on some surface - better not change screen orientation then
But as i said - it's only true when the dominant acceleration is the gravitational one - the sensor can't tell it from other sources of acceleration like waving the phone around. If you run one of the g-sensor games or demos and try quickly moving the phone around the desk (keeping it horizontal at all times), you'll see that the game will interpret this movement as tilting the phone.
[/MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION]
And by the way, why is this thread in development and hacking?
mr_deimos said:
False. It's a three (and probably sometimes two) axis MEMS accelerometer - there are a few companies making those, but probably the most popular ones are analog devices' ADXL series. Similar device sits in wiimote (just as a secondary motion detection system, the more accurate one is camera+sensor bar).
Because these chips became really cheap recently, and are way more accurate, reliable, and robust than any mechanical sensors (in the same price ans size range), they're being shoved in every possible device You can find them in digital cameras (used to recognize if the photo is portrait or landscape and tag it accordingly), in hard drives (to detect mechanical shocks and protect the hdd by parking its head), in laptops (usually same as above plus to detect when the computer is falling down or other dangerous situations and protect the hard drives), in cell phones (you probably know this one's uses), in toys, portable media players, and lots of other stuff.
A more precise answer is that it detects acceleration in three axes, and from these values phone's orientation can be calculated.
[MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION]
It's rather simple - when the phone is normally handled (it's not free falling and it's not being waved around), the dominant acceleration detected by the accelerometer is the gravitational acceleration (-9.81m/s^2 in vertical axis). So, if most of the time acceleration detected along the vertical axis of the phone is bigger than one detected along horizontal axis, the phone is being held in landscape position. If the situation is reversed, it's held in portrait orientation. If the acceleration is largest in the third axis (tangent to the screen), it means that the phone is being held nearly horizontally or it's lying on some surface - better not change screen orientation then
But as i said - it's only true when the dominant acceleration is the gravitational one - the sensor can't tell it from other sources of acceleration like waving the phone around. If you run one of the g-sensor games or demos and try quickly moving the phone around the desk (keeping it horizontal at all times), you'll see that the game will interpret this movement as tilting the phone.
[/MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION]
And by the way, why is this thread in development and hacking?
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How do you know this surplus of information? Was it from an engineering school / article / books / or phone dissection? How do you know this?
None of these answers made much sense, so I did a google search, found the following:
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/accelerometers.htm
poetryrocksalot said:
How do you know this surplus of information? Was it from an engineering school / article / books / or phone dissection? How do you know this?
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The theory of operation is actually pre-high school level stuff - basic physics (you know, Newton's laws, and theory of gravity)
And the details - caught some of these at the engineering university, some from accelerometer datasheets. I had to interface one of them to a programmable microcontroller a while ago so i needed to do some research on my own
I just got a TP2 and is a bit confused as to the working of the G-Sensor. I have calibrate it (and it is switched on), but nothing happens when I turn the phone sideways - ie turning to landscape mode. Am I missing something or need to activate it somewhere else?
Thanks
stoutseun said:
I just got a TP2 and is a bit confused as to the working of the G-Sensor. I have calibrate it (and it is switched on), but nothing happens when I turn the phone sideways - ie turning to landscape mode. Am I missing something or need to activate it somewhere else?
Thanks
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Hello, try to search on your programs, you will have "G-Config", it allows you to define which applications rotate.
Thanks very much. I searched but couldn't find any G-Config anyware in All programs. Only reference is the G-Sensor in All settings\System.
EDIT: Google reveiled G-Config to be a self written app. (just downloaded) So it's not a HTC app included in the ROM?
I think it would be a great idea to have some sort of thumb print software that would lock our diamonds. But has to have your thumb print to unlock the phone. Let me know ideas on development.
Well.. i guess this isn't possible because there is no finger print scan thingy in the diamond, so it cant scan if its really ur thumb
masterflasher said:
Well.. i guess this isn't possible because there is no finger print scan thingy in the diamond, so it cant scan if its really ur thumb
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Agree and the only way i can see this ever happening is if the camera was utilized and even then, the idea is skeptical.
is there no way we could program it to measure the points on you finger? but i guess there has to be some sort of biometrics involved.
i guess it may be coming check this out
http://www.scientificblogging.com/n...ryption_using_only_pictures_your_mobile_phone
its a pressure sensitive screen... it might be possible with a capacitive screen like the iPhone's and G1's heat sensing screen, but even then i find it HIGHLY unlikely
Even if its fake and gimmicky Symbian and Apple already have this app and I want it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyXyt-Ui5AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYgFYTjEFQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgtLzarNJ3Y
Nope. Highly highly highly unlikely this can be done. Our screens are just not sensitive enough to scan our thumb prints.
You can always have a fake, whereby it just looks like it's scanning your thumb print and unlock the phone. But it really defeats the purpose, because no added security at all.
It will be rally good to make some fake such as on the 5800, most of wm users will love it ;-) But with biometric scanner, ehm, we have to wait
you've got more chance of getting a working iris scanner for that.
i've seen a laptop do that using a webcam, so a phone with front-cam should be able to do it too(but at what battery and patience cost?)
itsallsubliminal
its a pressure sensitive screen... it might be possible with a capacitive screen like the iPhone's and G1's heat sensing screen, but even then i find it HIGHLY unlikely
Exactly if we could make a app that would measure how hard we would press the screen and we be able to go back re configure how hard the screen need to be pressed to unlock the phone
xxlildaddyxx said:
itsallsubliminal
its a pressure sensitive screen... it might be possible with a capacitive screen like the iPhone's and G1's heat sensing screen, but even then i find it HIGHLY unlikely
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Exactly if we could make a app that would measure how hard we would press the screen and we be able to go back re configure how hard the screen need to be pressed to unlock the phone
I've read people would like to have an on-screen cursor on their x1 and control it using the optical joystick. However, the optical joystick on x1 senses up down left or right, one way at a time only. It doesn't senses all directions and cannot move the cursor like computer mouse.
these are really bad news
thats what i thought but ... im not so sure about it yet.
the optical pad currently just emulates an scrolling wheel. and those are usualy 2/4-way only.
or do u know anything we dont know?
Well
Well, if my idea is right, the optical "pad" is simply the bottom of an optical mouse.
The difference in this case is that instead of moving the mouse, we are moving the detection surface.
So basically, unless it's specially designed only for 2 axis, it should, technically, detect all movement directions.
Exactly, it depends on whether the output of the optical sensor is converted into digital keypresses at the driver level or by hardware, and how exactly the optical sensor communicates to WM.
I have no idea where to start or how to go about finding this kind of thing out, let alone starting to program drivers/software for interception of the data.
I'm afraid it's a waiting game to see if there's anyone with the knowledge and expertise could do this, and another dice roll as to whether that person is interested enough to spend the time and effort in making a proper mouse style optical sensor a reality (or finding out after a lot of work that it's an impossibility...!)
Hi, can you do something more with the windows hello sensor?? It really looks like the kinect dot, wonder if you can scan 3d object, or have some sort of night vision if an app could use that sensor...
Kinect no (as far as i know it doesnt 'do 3d') but night vision maybe, since its pretty much an IR camera.
A little too early i guess, maybe in a few weeks somebody with the right skillset can have a stab at this
You most definitely can do some more stuff with that camera. It has after all an IR sensor.
You'll need to use the Windows Biometric Framework API.
Creating Client Applications
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee829699(v=vs.85).aspx
Windows Hello OEM and IHV app scenarios
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/mt608302(v=vs.85).aspx
It seems to me like there isn't actually any separate IR camera. It seems like the standard front-facing camera plus an infrared LED.
The reason I say that is that if you cover the FFC, then go to the "Improve Recognition" screen where it actually shows you what the device sees, it remains covered.
Just speculation though.
jhoff80 said:
It seems to me like there isn't actually any separate IR camera. It seems like the standard front-facing camera plus an infrared LED.
The reason I say that is that if you cover the FFC, then go to the "Improve Recognition" screen where it actually shows you what the device sees, it remains covered.
Just speculation though.
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There is a separate (IR?) camera. If you cover the FFC, the iris recognition and the login work normally.
ArsLDN said:
There is a separate (IR?) camera. If you cover the FFC, the iris recognition and the login work normally.
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Hmm, you're right. I guess the view I was talking about during the Improve Recognition is just showing the regular camera to the user (maybe to give an idea of where the phone needs to be positioned), while using the separate iris scanning camera for the actual training.