I have noticed that my HTC Touch HD consistently shows heights incorrectly - about 50m too high where I live. After some research I have identified that the NMEA message GGA contains 0 in field 11 (Geoid separation) which should contain the difference between the ellipsoid height and mean sea level height. In my Mio A701 this field contains 50.5, which explains the 50m error on the HTC.
Despite searching this forum I have been unable to find any reports of this problem. Has anyone else experienced it?
What gps chipset does the HTC Touch HD use? My copy of Sirftech does not work on it, so perhaps it is not the Sirf ?
Is there any way to correct this error?
Thanks for any information
Edit
The problem has been solved thanks to the GpsModDriver which performs this correction (amongst other things), and which can be found at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=571266.
rpettipher said:
What gps chipset does the HTC Touch HD use? My copy of Sirftech does not work on it, so perhaps it is not the Sirf ?
Is there any way to correct this error?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It uses the Qualcomm GPSone receiver, this isn't a discrete component as a SiRF chip would be, but is integrated into the 7201A chipset
Sounds like you need to try to flash a few different radios.
GPS height error
Thanks for the information about the chipset.
Because of that I found a small program (MyGPS) which is largely based on an MS SDK demonstration, and that gives the correct height !!
As I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong, that program uses the MS SDK primitives to get information from the GPS without going through the NMEA messages (?). If it can get the correct answer then the GPS must be working, but the NMEA messages, and the programs using them (ozi explorer, visualgps ...) are wrong.
It would be very helpful if someone could confirm that they do see non-zero values in field 11 of the GGA NMEA message (between the two Ms) on an HTC Touch HD.
(One easy way to see the messages is to use the log feature of visualgps).
Thanks for your help
Actually, I noticed it, and I programmed a soft-coded separation correction into the program GPSVP: http://code.google.com/p/gpsvp/
Not many chipsets have the separation. To date, I had none in my hands, other than when using a 'real' garmin connected via a cable to my PC.
Additionally, I have encountered no program that does the correction, other than gpsVP, in which I programmed that myself. I shall check that MyGPS, if it is correct, but I am sceptical, I do not believe that MS would strip the info from the chipset, nor do I believe MS has a softcoded correction.
I guess I could write some sort of serial loopback to insert the logic into other programs, but I am far to busy.
EDIT: just so you know: I only programmed this very small part into gpsVP, the rest is done by others.
GPS height error
Thanks for the reply cybermaus, unfortunately I am not sure what you are saying.
What did you notice ? Zero in field 11 of the GGA message?
Are you suggesting that most chipsets put 0 in field 11?
This is certainly not the case with my Mio A701 with the Sirftech chip, which puts 50.5 into that field and gives me accurate altitude values.
It seems (I am still learning) that there are two ways to get the information from the gps, either parsing the NMEA messages or using the MS API.
In my case it seems that the first way fails and the second works.
Which does your program use, and how have you made the correction?
Thanks (in advance) for your patience with these questions.
Well, yes, I am saying that the devices I encountered, all gave 0 in that field, except actual Garmin handhelds connected by serial. Also, I learned from reading in the internet, that many other people noticed the same. But that does not mean there are none. I believe any real Sirf III will do it correct, but I have a Sirf II dongle witch also does it wrong.
It even turns out there are a few devices, that put 0 in that field, but already subtract the correct separation from the geoid height, so you should not correct the value yourself.
The geoid separation is stable, and well known, you can look up the value for every coordinate on the internet. Also it varies only with a few meters per degree in the steepest places. The steepest separation is west of the mountains range of Peru. The biggest separation is a 100 mtr hole in the sea south of India.
What I did was program a hardcoded matrix with 10 degree resolution (to keep it small) with the correct geoid separation value. The program than takes your coordinates, and *interpolates* these in the matrix, to find your separation. I found it will yield the correct value within 1.5 mtrs, which is well within the GPS precision.
Also, if my program finds there is already a separation value in the field, it will *not* apply the correction, because it knows the chipset behaves properly.
If you want more details, browse the source to gpsVP. Unfortunately, you will not be able to use it for other programs if you are not a programmer or do not have access to the source of those other programs.
As I said, if I have some time, I will check out the MS API you mentioned, there is indeed a new API data structure in WM 6.1 and above, I played with it, but I did not check it for this parameter specifically. However, I am skeptical. I find it more likely the programmer from MyGPS did something similar as myself.
As to your Mio A701. Good. I said I did not encounter any other than the dedicated GPS handhelds from Garmin, but that does not mean there are none. To be quite honest, I only held 5 or so non-Garmins, so who knows.
I think the problem is not widely recognized because most people use GPS in 2D, for navigation. This 3D is more for people doing hiking, with programs like gpsVP or Ozi. Pilots and paragliders may have a 3D GPS, but know better than using it for altitude (I am a paraglider myself)
BTW: Ozi also does not correct the value, I checked.
GPS height error
Thanks again for the comprehensive reply.
I am surprised that you say that most GPSs give incorrect altitudes due to the missing geoid separation field, since I have seen a lot of discussion about this problem, mostly several years old, so I assumed that any modern chipset would have it sorted. I am also surprised that no-one with an HTC Touch HD (for instance) has complained about it.
Do you have an HTC Touch HD, and are therefore confirming that this model is faulty? That is - the NMEA message GGA field 9 gives height above ellipsoid and field 11 is 0.
I would still appreciate input from any other HTC Touch HD owner on the values in these fields.
As you say, and as I have seen, ozi explorer does not do a manual correction in the way you do. It does not need to when the NMEA messages are correct since field 9 is specified to contain height above MSL.
It does, however, have an option to subtract the geoid separation field from the value in field 9 to correct for the (other faulty) case where field 9 contains the height above ellipsoid and field 11 gives the geoid separation. If I use this option on the HTC it changes nothing, since field 11 is 0, but on the Mio it then gives me heights 50m too low (as would be expected).
I will now try your program.
Well, this not just my program, I only supplied 1% of the code, it just happens to be this particular part.
Anyway, yes, I do have a Touch HD. And yes, I am talking about the GGA message fields. One with altitude according to WGS84 ellipsoid, and one with the separation of said ellipsoid from the actual geoid according to the '96 model. Probably indeed fields 9 and 11, though I have not looked at the code for a few months, but it sounds about right.
Your MIO has a real Sirf III chipset. I would have expect that to work, because my Garmin also has a Sirf III in it. But as stated, I have a dongle with Sirf II, and that did not have the correction. Neither did the other dongles I have, but granted, they are all a bit aged and budget quality. Maybe my experiences are a non representative sample
But I confirm the Touch HD is faulty, and I suspect other HTC's and many other brands & models with non-dedicated chips. These do not have a real GSM chip, but a generic secondary ARM cpu shared with the GSM radio function and other radio functions like WiFi, UMTS, Bluetooth and probably even FM.
----
The way I understand it, the original GPS specifications did not have the separation specification. In '84, they simply did not realize that a simple mathematical ellipsoid model for earth and earth gravity was so incorrect.
It was only after the launch of the GSM network that they started to realize that there were so many fluctuations in the local gravity of the earth, which causes this effect, that they came up with the new '96 numerical geoid, rather than the mathematical '84 ellipsoid. Or something like that.
Of course, if HTC wanted, they could program the similar correction into the radio chip firmware, it is simple and small code. And it is 14 years after the fact. But I think they simply do not see the need.
----
If you start to use gpsVP, and you go hiking off-road, please note I find it best to use with GARMIN vector maps. I can also downloads Bing and Google raster maps, but those are not good in off-road data, though the satellite view is sometimes nice.
All in all, the program is a bit 'coarse' in its use. If you understand what it does (vector maps and preloaded cache for raster maps), it has value, but you will not be able to impress friends who are used to the smooth Google map application.
GPS height error
Thanks again cybermaus.
I tried the gpsvp program, both in the htc and the Mio. On both machines I got a correct altitude and a value of 51 for the geoid separation field, which compares well with the 50.5 which appears in the GGA messages on the Mio, so it looks as if your calculation works well.
I tried changing the value of the Geoid separation parameter in the setup options, trying auto, always and never, and in all cases got exactly the same results for altitude and geoid separation, so I am a bit puzzled. Does the setup option change anything, or does one have to do something else to activate it?
Well, the setup part of it is not complete yet, I think it is essentially always auto. Need to find the time and motivation to complete the coding. Log a case in the gpsVP website please.
I do not have much to contribute, but yes, living in Switzerland and hiking in the mountains I have also noticed that the altitude was wrong.
I first thought it was the inherent imprecision of the GPS, but then remarked that it was systematically off by several tens of meters.
I was also surprised that nobody complained, now I know that I am not alone.
I wish that programs like Ozi could apply the correction, or at least allow entering a fixed offset.
Thanks to cybermaus for explaining it.
Will give a try at gpspv.
GPS height error
Thanks marder.
Could you try running visualgps with the log activated, then look at the log file for the message $GPGGA? If the 11th field, between the two Ms, is always 0 then it proves the point.
I remain very surprised at the lack of complaints about this, if it is such a common problem.
But why would people complain? Or even notice?
The height error is absolute, but in differential measurements, it still works well. In other words, if you have a height, and you walk up a hill, it will give you a higher height (most of the time, and within margin of error). And most people are not aware of their absolute altitude anyway. Lets face it, if you live in Moscow, and the device tells you you are at 200mtrs, why would you distrust it?
I only noticed because I live at sea-level (Holland). You only noticed because you live in an area with above average separation, and got annoyed with two devices giving you 2 different values. And marder probably scratched his head when encountering these "xxxx above sea" markers which you get when hicking in the mountains. He would not encounter such markers in the city he lives.
Face it, if you had not had you Mio, would you have noticed? Or be able to confirm it?
Of course, once we know, we think it is unacceptable. Thats human nature, myself included.
But there are other people who did see it. Searching for keywords geoid and gps shows this thread, and the program appears also to have a fixed geoid position.
Like I said before, did you try different radios? As this affects the functions of the GPS. I had this problem too but flashing to the latest radio cleared it right up, along with making the gps now lock on with a strong signal within 8 seconds. Going through the complicated route of coding things to fix it is a bit pointless when others have fixed it before you. I'm not saying it will definitely clear it up for you, but taking 20mins to try a few radios is probably worth your time.
Oh and a good way to tell if it's accurate or not, for anyone else wondering, is to check on google earth for the "elevation".
GPS height error
cybermaus, I expect you are right - people do not notice.
I certainly did notice, independently of the Mio, by comparing the heights marked beside the autoroute that I use with those displayed by the HTC.
But you are right in that without the experience of the Mio I might well have assumed that it was due to some inherent inaccuracy in the GPS system and not searched further (and not found the thread at http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10915 where this is all explained).
stuntdouble, thanks for the input. I assume that flashing new radios is trivial for you, but somewhat more traumatic for people like me, aware that a problem during the process can end with a dead phone. Could you perhaps tell me
1. Does it actually correct the problem i.e. does the NMEA message $GPGGA give a non-zero value in field 11?
2. Do I lose all my programs and data in the process
3. Which of these many radios do you recommend
4. Where do I find it/them
5. Are you sure it will work on my phone (which is apparently of Malaysian origin)?
6. What is the procedure?
Sorry for the interrogation but this is not as easy for me as it is for you.
For information I have:
ROM version 1.18.707.3 (23358) WWE
ROM date 12/10/08
Radio version 1.09.25.14
Protocol version 52.49a.25.26U
rpettipher said:
stuntdouble, thanks for the input. I assume that flashing new radios is trivial for you, but somewhat more traumatic for people like me, aware that a problem during the process can end with a dead phone. Could you perhaps tell me
1. Does it actually correct the problem i.e. does the NMEA message $GPGGA give a non-zero value in field 11?
2. Do I lose all my programs and data in the process
3. Which of these many radios do you recommend
4. Where do I find it/them
5. Are you sure it will work on my phone (which is apparently of Malaysian origin)?
6. What is the procedure?
Sorry for the interrogation but this is not as easy for me as it is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yes. All seemingly corrected.
2. No programs are touched as long as it's a successful flash. Radio is separate from the rest of the device's memory. Just backup your device with Sprite Backup or SPB Backup before you try it, in case you do need to do a hard reset. This way you can get your device back to exactly the way it was before.
3. The one in my sig fixed mine. However every device is different so you would need to find the best radio for your own device. I'd start with the latest and work backwards though if I were you.
4. Get them here.
5. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You can always re-flash your old radio if you wish. However I suggest you ask in the radio thread before trying, which radio would be best for your operator. There will be plenty of people who will know this and have tried it before you have I'm sure. The radio info is based on your operator and not on country of origin for the phone.
6. Easy procedure is in link above.
I'm not guaranteeing this will fix your problem, but it really is easy to do and well worth attempting as like I said it fixed it easily for me. It also increased battery life dramatically, and the faster gps fix like I mentioned before.
I understand that it may seem difficult on first read. I felt that way too when I first tried it. But it really is very simple and I was wondering what I was scared of after I tried it. Just follow the instructions in that thread carefully and there won't be any problems. If you use windows vista/7 then make sure you run as admin if you are flashing via the pc. Good luck.
Sorry guys.
I have followed most of the radio updates, and never noticed this being fixed. I have to admit, I never checked since I updated to 1.17 radio, so I checked just now, and it still reports 0 meters separation and at 43 meters altitude (at the coastline of Holland...) So for clarity, I logged out the NMEA messages, and all $GPGGA mssages give 43.5,M,0,M for field 9 through 12. On the latest 1.17 radio.
While theoretically possible they fix it in the radio, it still has not been done, not even at 1.17. I guess you either have the luck of living in a region where geoid and ellipsoid are very close to each other, and/or you are not aware of your true absolute altitude.
GPS height error
Thanks guys now I am confused.
I suppose we need to know what "seemingly corrected" means.
Has stuntdouble actually seen the NMEA messages with the correct data?
Rom update
I do not know about taking "20mins to try a few radios" - I have spent several times that amount just reading some of the information relating to flashing!!
But then I am a slow reader.
Following the links I eventually found what is apparently the 1.17 radio rom on a support page of the HTC site.
I am puzzled to see that it is described as for South Africa only, and concerned to see that it says it is only for ROM version less than or equal to 1.14.421.5. when my ROM is 1.18.707.3.
Should I be concerned and should I also be concerned about the caution when starting the program that it will destroy all the information on my phone?
Just being cautious, especially as I do not know what improvements if any I will see.
Related
Dear xda-developers members,
[skip the first paragraph to avoid useless chitchat]
I usually avoid posting in forums when I can't contribute to the soultion of a problem but rather ask questions. This is mostly due to me feeling stupid years on when I stumble upon my then pressing problems. Anyway:
I'm having problems with my X1, more specifically the GPS receiver. I know users have reported problems before, so I don't seem to be alone after all. Let's start out with a
Description of the problem:
No software I tried so far gets anywhere near to a fix using GPS. Google Maps reports it's searching but won't find anything, Chartcross "GPS Test" hangs on "Starting up GPS", TurboGPS sometimes displays a satellite in the very center and finally there's the "HTC GPS tool" which shows this:
The "satellites" change in rather fast succession. This can't be right, can it? So far I have not gotten any fix at all. This was the case from the very beginning (got it off ebay by the way, said to be used for about 2 months). The HTC Tool as well as TurboGPS echo some seemingly gibberish data ("$GPGSV,4,1,16,32,,,,31,,,,30,,,,29,,,*70" and counting down, less often "$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K,N*2C" and things like that).
What I tried so far:
I tried multiple ROMs (R2A stock, R1A stock, 6.5 based, 6.1 based, very light ones, very heavy ones), basically all available Radio ROMs and yes, I switched off AGPS, I tried activating Bluetooth, not touching the backside as proposed by some, etc. It appears to be the X1a Version of the phone, if that is any help. COM-Ports have been switched, windows management of the device has been checked and unchecked, the baud rate has been changed to multiple values. Nothing.
I'd gladly supply you with any further information that might by useful. I think I don't need to stress how excruciatingly annoying this behaviour is. Exchanging the device is not really an option since a) I'll be in Canada in 17 days and I doubt my local dealer could fix this in the given time frame and b) I don't have the receipt - ebay, you see.
Best regards in hope of a solution...
do you try inside or outside ?
gps's generaly never get a signal inside
Nice one, but believe me, I tried outside. I tried on roofs. I tried in the streets. I tried with loads of free sky above my head. My stand alone GPS reciever (Garmin Geko 201) picks up many (at least 5) satellites in less than one minute.
@Tikurion
"The HTC Tool as well as TurboGPS echo some seemingly gibberish data ("$GPGSV,4,1,16,32,,,,31,,,,30,,,,29,,,*70" and counting down, less often "$GPVTG,,T,,M,,N,,K,N*2C" and things like that)"
Not gibberish actually, but NMEA GPS data flows, so your receiver is aquiring some data. Google NMEA if you want to understand these data sentences better.
No fix ? I have only 2 suggestions here;
1) try on hard reset with no AGPS (of course), updated QuickGPS data and a clear outdoors "line of sight"
2) the more recent radio ROM's (eg 1.11.25.76 or 1.14.25.55) do give very quick and accurate fixes if conditions in 1) above are there
ianl8888: I said seemingly, right ? What I meant was: I know it's not actually gibberish. But how do you explain me receiving the exact same values even if I'm in a cellar with absolutely no possibility of receiving anything?
I will yet again try another hard reset, although this then would be number... 15 I believe XD. AGPS is turned off already and radio rom is 1.14.25.55 at the moment. We'll see.
Thank you so far of course. Your help's always invaluable .
I dunno if it helps or not, but i had a similar problem. I found that no software could actually get a gps signal from the unit...it was like the software wasn't actually able to control/turn on the gps or something. the weird thing was that i noticed the "on the road" panel was able to get data. So, i tried running TT6 with the on the road panel running, and it worked. so then i launched google with on the road panel working, and it worked. to this day, if i want to run a gps dependent software, i must start on the road panel first. kind of weird but it works. I'm waiting for R3 to see if the problem goes away or not.
Ian
I tried what ianl8888 suggested multiple times - to no avail.
Also completelyhis: Thanks, but the On-the-Road Panel doesn't pick up anything either. Won't change status after "Determining current location".
tikurion said:
I tried what ianl8888 suggested multiple times - to no avail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like warranty time - seems your GPS antenna may be disconnected (poor or dry solder joint) ??
Unhappily, a not all that infrequent issue with PDA's. I once spent several weeks figuring out how to dis-assemble an Eten X500, re-solder the offending joint and then re-assemble the thing. It was way out of warranty, of course.
my problem with touch HD is similar... all sats bunched on top..
i went for servicing
Well, after temporarily bricking my X1 (tried to reinstall original SPL for service the wrong way) and solving that by using the Service Updater-thingie I sent to support, hoping they will be nice with me, despite not sending the warranty card or the receipt.
Use A-GPS .. for me it even worked inside my house... ( no my house is not a box of 50cm by 50cm.. but one big farm
Hi i have weird problem with my GPS.
While I driving (car is moving) everything is beauty and sweet but once I stop my car my GPS is still moving for about 10 sometimes 20 sec showing 2km/h then 0km/h then 2km/h again. Sometimes when I stop car on junction my Gps will jump on the perpendicular road and from time to time my arrow on the map just turn around to opposite direction and the maps sets a new route! Once i move my car everything going back to normal.
I was using first my TomTom and i just thought it`s a map problem although i haven`t problem with that on my Rhodium either X1. So I decided to try Igo8 and it`s exactly this same. Even on the roundabout my gps can jump somewhere else on different road.
I tried all Radios available for HD2, many Roms and just have no idea what more I can do. Many people on HD2 forum in Poland have this same problem.
I also tried GPS fix cab downloaded here from xda but no luck its ever worst.
I can add that i'm getting GPS fix in few second so its good the problem is just my gps is moving around.
PS. Very, very rarely have no problem with this jumpin gps around. But is like 1/30.
Do you have access to an external Bluetooth GPS receiver you can test out? That could eliminate or isolate some possibilities.
balane said:
Do you have access to an external Bluetooth GPS receiver you can test out? That could eliminate or isolate some possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unfortunately i don`t. but on my Touch Pro 2 and Xperia never had this problem.
hi,
are you using the 'gpsmoddriver' software, that is floating around here in the forum?. its made for using the compass data when no gps fix is available. it causes such failures in igo and copilot on my hd2. after uninstalling it gps works much more percise to me, when im not moving.
regards mad
Happens with mine as well. I have replaced my HD2 and it seems that the 2nd unit acts the same. tried various ROMs/RADIOs (official/cooked) - nothing seemed to fix this.
It's quite funny though... most of the people rather paying attention to the fix time instead of the accuracy (which is quite bad imo) in addition to this weird phenomenon. I doubt that the AGPS is somehow related, but it will be nice to know how to disable this feature, and try to acquire the signal without it. maybe this is the cause.
Btw, check this out - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600232
Fatherboard said:
Happens with mine as well. I have replaced my HD2 and it seems that the 2nd unit acts the same. tried various ROMs/RADIOs (official/cooked) - nothing seemed to fix this.
It's quite funny though... most of the people rather paying attention to the fix time instead of the accuracy (which is quite bad imo) in addition to this weird phenomenon. I doubt that the AGPS is somehow related, but it will be nice to know how to disable this feature, and try to acquire the signal without it. maybe this is the cause.
Btw, check this out - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600232
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agps - this feature is available in NRGZ roms. I tried to turn on and off and it was no different.
PS. thanks for answering.
madbird said:
hi,
are you using the 'gpsmoddriver' software, that is floating around here in the forum?. its made for using the compass data when no gps fix is available. it causes such failures in igo and copilot on my hd2. after uninstalling it gps works much more percise to me, when im not moving.
regards mad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i said before : i was using it. I had feelings its jumping around the places more than without it so I uninstalled it.
Tried to email HTC regarding this. they claim that their HD2's don't exhibit this behavior, even though I've tried two different units, from different batches.
I don't know what to do... this drives IGO nuts - it causes igo to switch lanes, directions and having the route recalculated without any good reason.
Fatherboard said:
Tried to email HTC regarding this. they claim that their HD2's don't exhibit this behavior, even though I've tried two different units, from different batches.
I don't know what to do... this drives IGO nuts - it causes igo to switch lanes, directions and having the route recalculated without any good reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes its just pointless to talk with those dickheads.
They ll never say true.
With pink camera was this same. They were saying at the beginning that they have no problem with pink spot at all. And what was next? We need just more people to email or ring them.
Most of them even not using HD2. They've seen for few minutes and think they'll know everything about it.
It was so many bugs with this device they just dont want to hear about another one!
In addition to that, both of my units tended to show different position and altitude readings each time i powered up igo or google maps. while exhibiting the differences I obviously didn't from my current position, not even an inch.
to try to make things clearer. that's what I did :
loading igo -> acquiring signal within seconds -> getting a certain position reading with altitude of 11 meters (for example) -> quit -> reloading igo -> acquiring signal within seconds -> slightly different position, altitude of 75 meters or a negative value (for example).
even the small blinking dot in igo (which determines the actual gps mark) doesn't fit to my physical location on the road which I'm currently driving on. it sometimes blinks few meters to the right/left, and sometimes it tracks behind the guidance arrow (as it should be).
Could be
Simply a limitation of GPS. I have seen it on other GPS's. Garmin etrex. Try walking with one and even thou you are walking in a straight line it plots a zigzag path. More satelites (10+) should reduce this issue.
Basically the GPS is only accurate to a certain range from +-50m to +- 2 meters depending on the no of sats. The location is detemined by timing from when the signal was sent to when it was received. Calcs how far away the sat is (Speed of light??). It is possible you care getting a fluctuation in your current location. Eg
Sample 1 says you are point a.
Sample 2 says you are 2 meters to the right.
Sample 3 says you are 2 meters to the left.
Still in the +- 5 meters but the gps is plotting you moving backwards and forwards.
Guys, it is a problem everyone has, gps position is not as accurate or stable on the hd2 as on most other htc devices. And with an erratic gps position automatically comes an erratic speed. Don't know yet if it is because of a different gps module that's inside the hd2 or because of the inclusion of crappy gps drivers. Will try to find out soon....
Anyway, gpsmoddriver is not the cause of this problem since the problem is also on an hd2 without having gpsmoddriver installed. Because of the functionality of gpsmoddriver to improve the gps readings, in some cases it can amplify your erratic gps position, and that is also what some of you have been experiencing. Remember you can always use gpsmoddriver to add the hardware compass functionality to your navigation software, while additionally configuring gpsmoddriver to leave gps data untouched so it won't make the erratic position and speed worse. For more info or help, please visit the gpsmoddriver thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=571266
EDIT: Of course the HD2 has a new snapdragon chip which has built-in GPS just like many previous generations of phones. Most likely qualcomm changed the way gps works in their new line of Snapdragon processors...
The movement of vehicles around you or even the movement of the sun's rays on buildings nearby can distort GPS signals. The GPS navigator software tries to rationalize this distortion and that usually appears as a movement when you are still. On the other hand, if you drive into a tunnel using TomTom and some other software, you will often see yourself driving straight on in the tunnel well after the GPS is receiving no more satellite signals.
In top-of-the-line built-in navigation systems, the GPS data is supplemented by inertial guidance. (Someone could create a similar supplement for the HD2 The supplementary information allows the system to reconcile the GPS information with information on your car's actual movement.
But for us mere mortals, we just have to live with it.
Well... this particular gps chip is quite useless, then. if my navigation program has to recalculate the route each time I stop at traffic light, then it seems that I either have to purchase a usb-based gps to pair with the HD2, or replace this device. I counted on it to perform well.
Fatherboard said:
Well... this particular gps chip is quite useless, then. if my navigation program has to recalculate the route each time I stop at traffic light, then it seems that I either have to purchase a usb-based gps to pair with the HD2, or replace this device. I counted on it to perform well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Complain to HTC, perhaps if they get enough complains they will come out with a hotfix or a rom upgrade that fixes it. Nobody said that the hardware is not that good (though it's possible), but it could also very well be a bad implementation by HTC!!
Already did.
They have obviously denied my complaints.
thanks again, anyway.
I noticed this behaviour yesterday night, at about 10pm. I was playing with NoniGPSplot, and while I was completely still (and freezing me arse outside believe me), it was tracking a movement back and fro and all around in small step, keeping track of me traveling some meters still while I was standing in the same point.
It was night and I was in my big yard, so no sunrays nor moving vehicles around nor buildings over my head.
I think this behaviour is very well hidden in tomtom since it automatically puts you on a road, and "smoothens" the gps data by making you follow that road no matter what, but a "realtime" software like nonigps tracks that all so well. Gonna notify htc about it now.
Guys, let's not go overboard on this. Non-military GPS is only claimed accurate to around 20 metres, regardless of the quality of the receiver. It's the US Defense Department messing with your HD2, not HTC.
Stephen Selby said:
Guys, let's not go overboard on this. Non-military GPS is only claimed accurate to around 20 metres, regardless of the quality of the receiver. It's the US Defense Department messing with your HD2, not HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, absolutely, I've noticed the same behaviour with all three of the BlueTooth GPS I used in the past. So, I would not be too quick to blame HTC for this.
my touch cruise's gps receiver worked with static navigation enabled to avoid this false movement. maybe this is just a usual behaviour?
Agree to that.
But regardless of the fact that the thing is not a military GPS system, It should do it's work correctly as for me the GPS is almost useless when driving slow or within a city. My 2nd phone (HTC DIAMOND) and 3 personal navigation devices are mounted in my car to compare and all work fine when the HD2 isn’t .
The GPS looses all the time the fix to the satellites and then quickly gets the fix back. when using a GPS monitor you can see that the satellites constantly moving really rapidly. (moving --> getting fix and loosing it again)
This is for 4 other reference devices which are running simultaneously not the case so it seems really an issue with the GPS device.
I tested this with different ROMs (1.44 Vodafone, 0.6 dutty WM 6.5.5, 1.66 stock and another one I cannot recall the producer anymore.)
This post is intended for troubleshooting and finding solution to the GPS on Galaxy S ONLY
For arguing, dissing, and the sort, please go in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=722476
Post here your findings, your solutions and your attempt at finding a better fix for the GPS.
If you happend to try something and it doesn't work, please state it also
And keep away from none relevant facts
Here's my finding so far:
The way the device is put (in a pocket or in a car) seems to greatly influence the signal and the streight of it. The antenna is (apparently) situated in the upper left part of the backplate, just outward by the Sim card. if the signal is obstucted or not facing the right spot, it might get a hard time getting a fix.
Someone might confirm this and I will try to record a couple of track while the device is place differently in my pocket to confirm it has an effect.
I'm using it for:
Mostly keeping track of my working with Sporty Pal. As for now, I get an error rate of under 3%, wich is acceptable as far as I go but a lower rate would certainly be taken
As for navigations and Trapster, it's still pretty "on the spot", I'm drinving a 1995 Acura Integra, so I don't know if the insulation of the vehicule could affect the signal and the device is always on a spot where it "sees" the sky.
Settings used
*#*#1472365#*#*
Session Type: Tracking
Test Mode: S/W Test
Operation Mode: Standalone
Start Mode: Hot Start
GPS Plus: ON
Dynamic Accuracy: ON (Please note, putting it to "off" will make the GPS lose signal way too often...
Accuracy: 20
Use SkyHook: OFF
Use PC Tool: OFF
Location Settings
Use Wireless Network: OFF
Use GPS Satellites: ON
Phone Info
FirmWare version:2.1 update1
Baseband:I9000UGJH2
Build Number: Eclair.UGJH2
LagFix used: None
Rooted using: None
Uptime about 16h
Known Workaround
1-TrackerBooster (available on the market)
This is a booster for the GPS, if you have issue where the position goes all around randomly, try installing and running this apps before running your GPS application. It was tested with SportyPal and gave amazing result.
2-BlueTooth GPS, some users have tested this solution here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=818688
you can most likely find one under 30$ and it should resolve the issue.
t1mman said:
Settings used:
#*#*1472365#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*#*#1472365#*#*
should work better. (Does not work on Froyo JPM).
well lets start with listing the known solutions
like for example using the external GPS receivers via Bluetooth
there are several tested and working Bluetooth GPS apps by our members in the Galaxy S I9000 Themes and Apps section of the forum
Thanks, corrected!
I did start a thread posting 2 videos with "solutions" where users can actually see those "gps solutions" in action eliminating any kind of speculation (seeing is believing), but the thread was removed with no warning or explanation...
Anyway here are the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2gm5DAOjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6QnNMxuCig&feature=related
In both videos, sgs's gps performance is flawless with or WITHOUT any assist (2nd video)like agps or aid of from an external bluetooth gps receiver (like in the first video).
In the meantime I already did 5 more driving tests, always running Motonav and so far no need for using my external bluetooth gps device.
The firmware is JPH, not customized and no lag-fix of any kind (not needed)
« »
Right, I dont want to start an argument and the video's above are very usefull.
But I think it's possible that the navigation software you are using is optimised and more than likely programmed to keep you on the road, rather than drifting all over the place.
I noticed this while in the car earlier. When using "google maps" my position was often miles out and all over, however when using the "google navigation" it kept me on the road and appeared to track my location really well.
So from a navigation by road point of view I don't have a problem.
So i thought a compare of SNR levels compared to a differant phone might help, so i took a photo of my sgs running GPS Test, next to a Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade. Both are running froyo, both had gps and a-gps turned on. Both were next to eachother, both were left to settle for five minutes after the apps were started. Both were connected to exactly the same wifi connection. Finally the ZTE was connected to 02 network, and the sgs is on orange.
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From what you can see in the photo's the levels are pretty similar. Maybe with the sgs gaining a higher level on average compared over all satelittes it found.
Now with both devices sat next to eachother this is fine, however on moving around the sgs kept loosing its lock on the sattelites and stopped using them, however the blade kept its lock better. The blade seemed to keep its lock even with the SNR of some satelittes getting very low, however the sgs lost its lock at a far greater snr level.
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
betoNL: Thanks for the TrackerBooster apps, I've done a run this evening with it and it's trully amazing!! With it, I don't see any "jumping around" issue at all. If anyone has any issues where the position goes "randomly", they should try TrackerBooster.
SkinBobUk: Thanks for the sharing, I'll try GPS test and post image with and without TrackerBooster to compare
personally iv used the gps quite a lot to navigate around the U.A.E and most of it was using the trapster program to keep an eye on radars/speed traps while driving.
testing the gps is totally random, the results are never improving, simply random.
sometimes id get a fix in seconds and other times it wouldn't (guess its an SGS thing), playing around the settings i found the best combination to be...
Session Type: Tracking
Test Mode: S/W Test
Operation Mode: MS Based
Start Mode: Hot Start
GPS Plus: ON
Dynamic Accuracy: ON
Accuracy: 500
Use SkyHook: ON
Use PC Tool: OFF
tho accuracy is high at 500 the test showed better lock on gps and a max of 20m error, with accuracy i found out that the smaller the number , the harder it is for gps to get/maintain a lock ( even with high SnR numbers between 25-40 maintaining a lock was hard, the SGS was jumping around which gps to lock on ) and with a high number it would maintain the lock for a longer period of time. Highest i found was 500 and anything beyond that wont even activate the gps when running the get position test.
last weekend iv been on a fishing trip and needed the gps help , it was working amazingly accurate up to 5m error thruout the trip but every 5 minutes or so it would hang/freeze and the solution was to restart the program which was fine by me.
Conclution is that GPS is simply unreliable being in its Random State
(when under a lot of testing the gps would freeze/hang and a phone restart is needed to get it back up {switching gps off and back on doesn't help}) , i found a small app in the market called GPS optimisation by octy which should optimise signal reception but for me it doesn't but rather fixes the gps and gets it back from its frozen/hung state - time it takes to restart the phone = more than a min but this app does it in seconds
hope this accuracy options helps you people out in getting better/longer locks on gps
I also use tracker booster with sportypal combined, it provide great accuracy
SkinBobUk said:
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
got the same feeling/issues/feedback when i tested the gps. trackerbooster and equivalent apps didn't really help me with the "lost lock too easily" issue
when its locked it seems to work fine (accuracy wise), but it keep losing the lock of all sats at once every now and then
On my SGS I have found that if I hold it with the screen vertical or tilted back slightly I get significantly higher signal than if it is horizontal. Also portrait is better than landscape by 2-3 dB.
Please write your firmware / Rom info and if it's stock or with Root/Lagfix
Currently, the only conclusion I can make is this combination is running flawlessly:
Accuracy on 20
Rom on JH2 (Stock for BellCanada)
TrackerBooster installed/enabled
NO lagfix
NO rooting
Latest run with this combination is right on the spot so far as jogging, I can clearly see where I cross the street or when I ran into a parking lot.
Imho, there are no special fixes or special settings to improve sgs's gps performance, just some "assist" or a-gps if you will.
There are all kind of a-gps possibilities besides the "standard" one that uses cellular towers wich in many situations can be unreliable.
Other types of "assist" are implemented by using the right software to simply download "fresh ephemeris data and injecting it to accelerate the first lock during a cold start* .
The big issue (again, in my opinion) is WHY the majority of the smartphones nowadays (and with that I mean NOT ONLY the sgs), are equiped wich gps chipsets that will require 'ASSISTING" ??
A couple of years ago, experts of the GPSPassion forum performed a comparison test between devices equiped with a sirfstarIII chipset and others with a-gps and the conclusion
was as I quote:
CONCLUSION
While the Qualcomm gpsONE chipset of the HTC P3600 performs better than on the Siemens SXG75 Linux Smartphone where it could take 10+ minutes to get a fix, it remains much less effective than the SiRFstarIII chipset used on most current GPS PDAPhones . This comparison also shows the impact of GPS Assistance (A-GPS) to get a fix and reduce the time to guidance. Even the "offline A-GPS" of the Mio A701 helps significantly, while the "Full A-GPS"(SUPL) of the Orange SPV M650 will bring extra speed and more so as the conditions deteriorate.
Overall, the GPS performance of the SiRFstarIII PDAPhones is excellent and does not pale in comparison with the performance of dedicated GPS systems like the TomTom AIOs as seen in this comparison done in the same area. Let's hope the upcoming GPS PDAPhones like the HTC X7500, the Eten X800, the Mio A501, etc...will maintain these high standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(here is the whole article: http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=175&page=6)
Well, their hope was is vain, cause even the very expensive so called high-end smartphones,
just stoped using sirfstar III chipsets or equivalent and using a-gps dependable ones,forcing users to find, configure or re-invent A-GPS solutions!
The good news (at least for me) is that the gps chipset of the sgs is LESS A-gps dependable than many other smartphones I tested, and even if it wasnt, I can always rely on the aid of my external bluetooth gps receiver(equiped with a sirfstarIII chipset), since programs like "bluetooth gps mouse" and "gps provider" work like a charm on the Android OS (see my first video: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8876869&postcount=5).
Another issue is that Google maps could be unreliable for car navigation and of course unreliable for testing as well: http://forum.samdroid.net/f9/maps-navigation-bug-missing-value-gps-accuracy-1247/
Cheers
* - http://books.google.nl/books?id=2Cx...=cold start and hot start definitions&f=false
In the images earlier in the thread where someone posted two pics, one of the SGS and a matched one with another phone, the SGS seemed to be consistently 3 to 4 lower on the same satellite at the same time. That would likely be a hardware (antenna) issue, and could it be that is the problem with fluctuating results, that the reception is just too flaky?
To me, that is an eye opener. Id like to know if it would be likely for the software to cause a reported different in signal strength. You would think that the reported signal strength would be unchanged from the chip, through the driver to the reporting software, no?
SkinBobUk said:
Right, I dont want to start an argument and the video's above are very usefull.
But I think it's possible that the navigation software you are using is optimised and more than likely programmed to keep you on the road, rather than drifting all over the place.
I noticed this while in the car earlier. When using "google maps" my position was often miles out and all over, however when using the "google navigation" it kept me on the road and appeared to track my location really well.
So from a navigation by road point of view I don't have a problem.
So i thought a compare of SNR levels compared to a differant phone might help, so i took a photo of my sgs running GPS Test, next to a Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade. Both are running froyo, both had gps and a-gps turned on. Both were next to eachother, both were left to settle for five minutes after the apps were started. Both were connected to exactly the same wifi connection. Finally the ZTE was connected to 02 network, and the sgs is on orange.
From what you can see in the photo's the levels are pretty similar. Maybe with the sgs gaining a higher level on average compared over all satelittes it found.
Now with both devices sat next to eachother this is fine, however on moving around the sgs kept loosing its lock on the sattelites and stopped using them, however the blade kept its lock better. The blade seemed to keep its lock even with the SNR of some satelittes getting very low, however the sgs lost its lock at a far greater snr level.
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank's for the input, but in wich conditions and where those pictures were taken? Are they taken with a camera or are they screenshots?
What I can say, eventhough I find OFFLINE software car navigation more reliable (and I always use up-to-date maps) they are not "optimized" to "keep me on the road" as you speculated, is more likely that the full A-gps (SUPL) on the Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade is better optimized than sgs's but then again that's speculation.
This discussion can go both ways:
A) The complicated way, mostly based on speculation, for instance: saying that Samsung or Google cannot handle A-gps protocols, I mean wich SUPL configurations to use, in wich regions, by wich carriers, with wich software and so on....
And: Nokia wants you to use the server "nokia.supl.com" on their phones and Google wants you to use "supl.google.com" on their phones, but how the different carriers, in different regions and the various software are dealing with those configurations? And again how to deal with full a-gps? And why do we have to( see my last post)?
B) The easy way: Just get a external bluetooth gps receiver (with a sifstarIII chipset or better) connect any gps software using "gps bluetooth mouse" or "gps provider" apps to it and get over with it !
I rest my case
P.s.- On my last 6 trips didnt even have to use the external gps, just the internal one...it is doing just fine;
i must have a specially blessed sgs or Holland is just a better place for gps navigation
« »
betoNL said:
What I can say, eventhough I find OFFLINE software car navigation more reliable (and I always use up-to-date maps) they are not "optimized" to "keep me on the road" as you speculated, is more likely that the full A-gps (SUPL) on the Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade is better optimized than sgs's but then again that's speculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS is only necessary for the initial lock and yes, Navigon, iGo et al are optimized to keep the position on the road.
Oletros said:
A-GPS is only necessary for the initial lock and yes, Navigon, iGo et al are optimized to keep the position on the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple test is to drive down the road using google maps, then drive back using google navigation. The differance couldn;t be more clear.
They have to be optimised to keep people on the road, if not then there is a problem with google maps, and i doubt that!
SkinBobUk said:
A simple test is to drive down the road using google maps, then drive back using google navigation. The differance couldn;t be more clear.
They have to be optimised to keep people on the road, if not then there is a problem with google maps, and i doubt that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Google maps isn't perfect (if you check the satellite feeds, you'll notice the roads wont always align perfectly) , but anyway, you are correct. Car navigation apps do special work to allow large errors to be made by the GPS without freaking out. That wont work with normal tracks.
Testing consistancy
The problem here is that the testing must be consistent. What is needed is an application to:
1) Create tracks at the highest resolution possible
2) Record speed at many points
3) Maybe have OBD2 integration, so we can match REAL vehicle speed with the track
4) Record the satelites/snr values constantly on the track.
5) Have test scenarios, that takes into account the environment and speed. Because when walking at 1hz, updates of GPS are done every 2-3 meters, but at 100km/h, it's every 28m. We don't even have enough info to know how often updates are done, and some tracks are created by people who are in dense skyscraper ville. We simply can't compare the information at the moment
6) By comparing car tracks to google maps, you could even do some basic GPS benchmark type stuff!
Start with a proper testing procedure, create a means of gathering PROPER information, then we can finally start actually testing how reliable people's phones REALLY is! At the moment, we are simply comparing OPINIONS, because there aren't specific tests to follow. There is nothing scientific about this thread until a process to accurately compare results is created.
andrewluecke said:
Actually, Google maps isn't perfect (if you check the satellite feeds, you'll notice the roads wont always align perfectly) , but anyway, you are correct. Car navigation apps do special work to allow large errors to be made by the GPS without freaking out. That wont work with normal tracks.
Testing consistancy
The problem here is that the testing must be consistent. What is needed is an application to:
1) Create tracks at the highest resolution possible
2) Record speed at many points
3) Maybe have OBD2 integration, so we can match REAL vehicle speed with the track
4) Record the satelites/snr values constantly on the track.
5) Have test scenarios, that takes into account the environment and speed. Because when walking at 1hz, updates of GPS are done every 2-3 meters, but at 100km/h, it's every 28m. We don't even have enough info to know how often updates are done, and some tracks are created by people who are in dense skyscraper ville. We simply can't compare the information at the moment
6) By comparing car tracks to google maps, you could even do some basic GPS benchmark type stuff!
Start with a proper testing procedure, create a means of gathering PROPER information, then we can finally start actually testing how reliable people's phones REALLY is! At the moment, we are simply comparing OPINIONS, because there aren't specific tests to follow. There is nothing scientific about this thread until a process to accurately compare results is created.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You raise valid points, but it is unrealistic to expect this kind of controlled testing from an Internet forum.
What I can tell you from personal experience is this: when I run Nexus one with Google Map and SGS with Google Maps at the same time while driving from work to home (or vice versa) the SGS consistently loses lock for about 30% of the route. When I go off the motorway it consistently thinks I am still on the motorway for about 10-20 after I have left it and then needs to reroute. Both the Nexus and SGS are running Android 2.2 and the same version of Google Maps. Nexus One (and an iPhone 4 which I also have) have none of this problems.
The point I tried to make earlier in this thread, admittedly not in the most polite way, is that all the settings discussed here are for AGPS. They only affect the speed of initial lock, not the functioning of the GPS itself. That is why none of the so called "fixes" work for people with non or poor functioning GPS. All that Samsung has done in various ROMs is to tinker with AGPS and also smoothing and predicting of the path while driving; they have not been able to address the underlying issue, which is the inability of the GPS receiver to keep GPS lock.
This can easily be tested by using something like "GPS status" application: it is able to download new GPS assistance data and acquire lock quickly. But if you keep this application running while driving, you will see that the GPS lock is lost many times - at least that is my experience.
darkoroje said:
You raise valid points, but it is unrealistic to expect this kind of controlled testing from an Internet forum.
What I can tell you from personal experience is this: when I run Nexus one with Google Map and SGS with Google Maps at the same time while driving from work to home (or vice versa) the SGS consistently loses lock for about 30% of the route. When I go off the motorway it consistently thinks I am still on the motorway for about 10-20 after I have left it and then needs to reroute. Both the Nexus and SGS are running Android 2.2 and the same version of Google Maps. Nexus One (and an iPhone 4 which I also have) have none of this problems.
The point I tried to make earlier in this thread, admittedly not in the most polite way, is that all the settings discussed here are for AGPS. They only affect the speed of initial lock, not the functioning of the GPS itself. That is why none of the so called "fixes" work for people with non or poor functioning GPS. All that Samsung has done in various ROMs is to tinker with AGPS and also smoothing and predicting of the path while driving; they have not been able to address the underlying issue, which is the inability of the GPS receiver to keep GPS lock.
This can easily be tested by using something like "GPS status" application: it is able to download new GPS assistance data and acquire lock quickly. But if you keep this application running while driving, you will see that the GPS lock is lost many times - at least that is my experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When using TrackerBooster, not only the "first fix" is current, but all of them. I know that aGps just helps get it quicker, but how do you explain gettings track with 5% error rate to under 1% for the same track using the same software?
I don't know how this program works, but it does and, in the end, the goal is to use the GPS to what our needs are (mine is mostly to keep jogging tracks, with speed and accuracy as high as possible)
As I explained before, so far I can conclude that all my issues are fixed using trackerbooster. It seems like not all users have this kind of result and hardware (or built date) might affect some units, but many of us had good results with the addition of a GPS booster (of some sort).
Well here I am near the river Thames near where it becomes tidal - ergo, pretty close to sea level (actually about 30ft above). My new all dancing DHD' GPS system tells me I am 230ft in the air. I honestly do not think I am that high!
It seems to me the DHD contains a blast form HTC's past, the Touch Cruise also added 200ft to the GPS heights. Why have they implemented a GPS hardware issue they have known about for years...is the GPS system hardwired into the snapdragon chip? Is it the kind of thing a software update will eventually correct?
I use OS maps a lot for hiking and tracking, and while I know the height issue is not a big thing as I know the problem, my tracks will always be out by 200 ft vertically.
However, the compass works, unlike on my old HD2...but I really hate little faults like this, they gnaw on me...I really hope none of the GPS system implanted in the noses of bombs and missiles don't have this fault!!!
This may be the app you are using.
I use Compass from Catch.com and find it pretty good.
Also make sure you are receiving signal from at least four satellites to get accurate reading.
my bad
thanks for the advice - MM Tracker is clearly out buy 150-200 feet in altitude...I have the compass as well, it has accuracy +/- but I can't see where it has altitude.
Open Compass app.
Tap 'Menu' button, then Compass Type then GPS
On large Green Bar it reads Speed, Altitude and Accuracy.
Bottom green display shows how many satellites are in use.
thanks, I had not seen that feature, very nifty - when it has stopped raining I will go outside and full complement of satellites and check. Certainly held up against the window, the 200ft discrepancy does still seem to be there using the compass...I will check later – thanks for your thoughts on this.
nope there is a problem
according to the compass I am 316 foot in the air. I beleive where I am is about 25 foot above sealevel - looks to me that HTC has reimplented the same fault they has on the Touch Cruise. No biggy, but it is annoying, a little
If you look through this forum, a few other people seem to have a faulty gps .
My suggestion would be, get in touch with who supplied the phone for an replacement, as a wrong reading on GPS will affect footprints, locations, sat nav etc.
Maybe you do not use these programs much, but with the cost of the phone, everything on it should work, especially the hardware.
that doesn't make any sense at all, the phones screens are super strong and anti scratch out of the box from factory without any add-on.
if you cracked yours like you described, you must to have put it over a very hot surface, or with saline/acidic solution.
i've seen the video where the guy repeatedly intentionally drop the screen with no problem, until he tried to smash it over 1.5m high, anything less than 1.0 drop is safe for the screen.
i can see why samsung doesn't believe you, as it's physically imposible for it to break in the way you described it.
all that aside, if you can find a replacement screen, usually it is a plug and play piece.
i've done many of those on my old Treo and Blackberry phones, the SGS will be no different.
Replying to AllGamer's post. I had just taken my galaxy off my battery charger. So the phone was pretty hot. I believe that there was some defect or tension on the screen. The cracking started from the corner of home button.
AllGamer said:
that doesn't make any sense at all, the phones screens are super strong and anti scratch out of the box from factory without any add-on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not sure about this.
My 2 weeks old phone dropped from the sofa and down at the floor today. About 50 cm and landed flat on the floor with the front first. Screen cracked all over, phone still usable though.
I´m ordering a replacement package. To much hassle trying to arguing against samsung or the shop i bought the phone in, stating the same as a bow.
But the lesson is, be careful people. The screen cracks surprisingly easy.
dangrayorg said:
Having studied the effects seen with the MS options over measured trials and based on my assertions in my previous post I believe that MS stands for ‘Multiple Sensors’ or ‘Motion Sensors’.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here did I stop reading.
You don't even know what MS-Based and MS-Assisted stands for, and you think you can work out what the problem is?
Really. Thank you for trying, but changing the settings is no solution.
maesebit: Care to help then?
BS...
maesebit said:
And here did I stop reading.
You don't even know what MS-Based and MS-Assisted stands for, and you think you can work out what the problem is?
Really. Thank you for trying, but changing the settings is no solution.
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Click to collapse
Actually I can't find any decent quotable source. That said I may be slightly embarrassed as I come up with this:
What is MS-Assisted mode of operation?
In MS-Assisted mode, the network elements calculate the location of the device. This mode is suitable for one-shot fixes, wherein the location does not need to be updated frequently.
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What is MS-Based mode of operation?
In MS-Based mode, the network provides the satellite information to the device, based on a rough estimate of where the device is located, and the device acquires the GPS signals from the satellites and calculates its location. After the initial fix, the device operates like an autonomous GPS receiver, until the satellite information must be refreshed, at which time the device goes back to the network to update the satellite information. MS-Based mode is appropriate for applications that require the device location to be updated rapidly, such as a navigation application.
Back to the OP again.....
Peer review, ain't it a *****.
Brownstone said:
maesebit: Care to help then?
BS...
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I wish I could. But I can't provide you with a better antenna.
I'm just pointing out that this thread is not offering any solutions to the problem, and never will, unless it adds some sort of hardware modding tutorial.
maesebit said:
And here did I stop reading.
You don't even know what MS-Based and MS-Assisted stands for, and you think you can work out what the problem is?
Really. Thank you for trying, but changing the settings is no solution.
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If you don't have corrective information, just P*SS OFF...
You've trolled every GPS related thread out there, with no information what so ever and only whinning about how your life sucks without GPS... I guess you must be hitting the walls in your place without a descent GPS eh?
It is specified by the OP that he "assumes" it stands for X and Y. This is speculative but still, this is at least someone trying to DO SOMETHING else than whine pointlessly and troll everything...
What did you do to make it right? Did you concact your reseller, did you contact samsung, did you tip any news site with the information?
As for the informations, this is what MS stands for:
MS = Mobile Station = your cell phone or handheld
MS-based = it gets GPS information assistance to find the satellites, then continues calculations on its own. Used for example with VZ Navigator.
MS-assisted = gets GPS assistance, and then sends raw GPS readings to another server to do the location calculations. Used a lot for E911 locating.
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Yesterday my GPS started going totally berserk on me... I usually have a good track, better than I used to have with my HTC Vogue to track my workout but wierd thing appened yesterday, got me this track:
http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/776945?key=121d6fcdae3e1f2a69d349083a6f18affae9cd0a&ms=0
So I've disabled WiFi, rebooted the thing and it was still inacurate...
http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/776280?key=f7ae25b101afde4752bfd15d940e289ef8c4b8c4&ms=0
Better still, but unusable to track jogs
So I went ahead and strted GPS Status to clear and redownload A-GPS data and did a small test
http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT....436748,-71.004682&spn=0.005479,0.013894&z=17
I've played around in here and crossed the street a couples of times... I would say it's within 2 meter accurate of my real position and no weird jumps...
Still, this was a small 5 min. test. I'll check it out when I get another jog but it seems like the fix was more stable.
I know AGps is only used for the first fix, and shouldn't affect the accuracy once fixed, but what if (this is speculation, it should need further investigation) the GPS status accuracy issue was more likely caused by a lost and retreival of a fix? In this case, the fact that the fix was lost/regain would mean that the aGPS would affect the accuracy as it is constatly regained.
Any way to force disable the AGps overall?
It wouldn't be folish to belive that Samsungs engineers used MS for another meaning, they're often not very good in English.
I'm curious of the possible effects of moving the internal GPS antenna. Aka opening the phone, moving the antenna far away from other components and testing the GPS with default settings. Sometimes does wonder.
maesebit said:
And here did I stop reading.
You don't even know what MS-Based and MS-Assisted stands for, and you think you can work out what the problem is?
Really. Thank you for trying, but changing the settings is no solution.
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That doesn't mean that the OP settings don't work best on our phones in real world testing. Has anyone proved which setting is best?
MS-Based = Mobile Station Based.
MS-Assisted = Mobile Station Assisted.
Standalone = no A-GPS used at all?
From this page, we can see that "Mobile Station" (MS), refers to the GPS receiver, ie the phone itself in this case. Therefore MS-Based means the phone itself computes the location with a combination of data from the GPS signals and the A-GPS server. MS-Assisted, means the phone sends it's GPS data to the server for the server to calculate the location for it. Standalone presumably means that the phone doesn't ask the servers opinion (is that correct?)
The point is that the OP was running a series of guesses based upon their experience of testing the device in the real world and trying to make sense of the data they saw. Therefore unencumbered by ideas of which should be "better" they have gone purely on test data. This might go against knowledgeable instincts, but doesn't mean it is wrong... even if the explanations of "why" are miles off!
If you have something to offer, then please DO carry on reading past the bit that was wrong, and see the bigger picture. Do the settings mentioned help or not?
I seem to remember that my phone was set to standalone when I got it, and someone trying to help suggested I switch to MS-Based, which I did, but I've had problems since then. I'll try it back on Standalone for a while and see if it helps! Maybe the A-GPS stuff is still part of the problem on this unit, and it performs better in standard GPS mode? Or maybe we can find a better server to use for the assistance?
Mike
t1mman said:
You've trolled every GPS related thread out there, with no information what so ever and only whinning about how your life sucks without GPS... I guess you must be hitting the walls in your place without a descent GPS eh?
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Hey, I actually published a track showing how the GPS performs well when used in open spaces, and awfully when it's sorrounded by stuff like buildings.
I guess that's more helpful for investigation pourposes than blaming the world for not being alligned with the Galaxy S' GPS, as others do. XD
No offence, but all this thing about recording tracks and looking for miracolous configs is starting to be ridiculous. You might notice slight improvement by doing so. But it won't be enough.
So, sorry for bringing people's hopes down, but if the GPS could be fixed by simply changing some settings Samsung would have already done that. You know, even their useless engineers could be able to do that in 6 months time.
I'm going to come to maesebit's defence. I was talking arse about MS nav and he called me on it. The wandering behaviour which I had put down to INS could easily be caused by having a base-station try to DF you and pass that position back (doppler shift maybe? That would explain why it keeps you moving for a while until it decides that you have stopped.)
Actually it doesn't make any difference. The loudest cry in this forum seems to be for 'MS-Assisted' which is precisely the wrong mode.
They're not well named modes, given that MS-Based is actually assistive while MS-Assisted is actually based - quite counter intuitive!
I know it's cheeky but I'm going to keep ammending the OP because I think it's important that that paints a picture of what can be done. Simply put I'm under no illusions that Samsung will do anything about this because it needs a hardware fix so it's for us to look at the 'art of the possible'.
bilboa1 said:
It wouldn't be folish to belive that Samsungs engineers used MS for another meaning, they're often not very good in English.
I'm curious of the possible effects of moving the internal GPS antenna. Aka opening the phone, moving the antenna far away from other components and testing the GPS with default settings. Sometimes does wonder.
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MS- Based and MS-Assisted is standard tech slang. But who know. They could be changing the achronyms meanings. Maybe they could be using "GPS" as "Great Piece of ****" instead of "Global Positioning System" too.
As of changing the antenna placement. That'd be interesting. Anyone dares to give it a try? We could also try to attach an external GPS antenna to the phone and see what happens.
maesebit said:
Hey, I actually published a track showing how the GPS performs well when used in open spaces, and awfully when it's sorrounded by stuff like buildings.
I guess that's more helpful for investigation pourposes than blaming the world for not being alligned with the Galaxy S' GPS, as others do. XD
No offence, but all this thing about recording tracks and looking for miracolous configs is starting to be ridiculous. You might notice slight improvement by doing so. But it won't be enough.
So, sorry for bringing people's hopes down, but if the GPS could be fixed by simply changing some settings Samsung would have already done that. You know, even their useless engineers could be able to do that in 6 months time.
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I would agree with you, but considering some have good tracks, some have bad tracks; there must be something that affects the GPS usability.
And, as I replied, A-Gps will have an effect if the signal is constantly lost and regain, as it is most likely the case in urban area, where the signal is known to bounce off of buildings or be disrupted by radio signals in the surroundings. I don't know how much you've tested any settings at all, but considering most of your answers consist in discrediting the whole A-Gps theories, I would assume “none”. So, your “theory” that it doesn’t affect anything at all is still a theory, just as OP’s or any of us.
maesebit said:
So, sorry for bringing people's hopes down, but if the GPS could be fixed by simply changing some settings Samsung would have already done that. You know, even their useless engineers could be able to do that in 6 months time.
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I don't think so. We all would like to believe that the Samsung engineers are as involved as the XDA crowd is. Forget it. Why did it took months for Samsung to come up with their Froyo version? Look at it, what's are the extras that Samsung puts in Froyo that legitimate months of delay?
Samsung just sees this as a calculated risk:
- only 25% of the customers will use the GPS
- 25% of those will have used a GPS phone before and are able to compare
- 25% of those will bother
- 25% of those will look at forums like XDA
- 25% of those will rant on forums like XDA
So, 0,098 % of customers will have a problem, big deal. Samsung just doesn't bother. Maybe a few engineers do, but they are already working on the Galaxy S2, and we are blessed with people like the OP to help us out.
I have a Samsung Blue Ray Player also. The thing has a RJ-45 network socket. To this day, it's unable to find Windows Network shares in the network (you know those shares invented in the Windows For Workgroups era). So you can type in the IP adress, username and password manually (painstakingly with the remote) so it finds your shared media. But.., the engineers didn't bother to make the player SAVE that IP, username, passwords when you power off the Blue Ray Player.... That's the level of engineering at Samsung.
PS: my GPS works fine from the start. Fix in a few seconds, and just an occasional hop on a nearby road.
FadeFx said:
Sorry for proving you wrong, but i can tell you one thing
our GPS actually works well
The problem we do have is not really GPS, the root of the problem actually is the shaky compass sensor. With not knowing where exactly north is, the best navigator can't tell you where exactly you are. .
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Are you serious? North and South, East and West have never been relevant in determining your GPS position....
Direction is based on the followed track between two or more determined GPS locations, not the poles.
Only a Compass can indicate North when stationary, a GPS device has to be moving (been moving) to indicate North, which it doesn't do based on poles but on the GPS locations it determined in the previous seconds.
pwhooftman said:
Are you serious? North and South, East and West have never been relevant in determining your GPS position....
Direction is based on the followed track between two or more determined GPS locations, not the poles.
Only a Compass can indicate North when stationary, a GPS device has to be moving (been moving) to indicate North, which it doesn't do based on poles but on the GPS locations it determined in the previous seconds.
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A compass isn't involved in traditional plain GPS. Correct.
However, is it definitively proved that the compass doesn't interfere with GPS tracking on our phones, by adding another sensor feed in to the mix?
It probably doesn't have an affect, but are we absolutely sure?
Have people tried re-calibrating their compass and accelerometer, even just so we can dismiss them completely as being not part of the problem?
Mike
xpcomputers said:
A compass isn't involved in traditional plain GPS. Correct.
However, is it definitively proved that the compass doesn't interfere with GPS tracking on our phones, by adding another sensor feed in to the mix?
It probably doesn't have an affect, but are we absolutely sure?
Have people tried re-calibrating their compass and accelerometer, even just so we can dismiss them completely as being not part of the problem?
Mike
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if by recalibrating you mean running the sensorcalibutil_yamaha, then yes, i recalibrate it all the time, since the bloody thing gets screwed up so often.
I just wondering why people keep asking question here rather than using discussion thread... Also people keep reporting bug here rather than using issue tracker...
@codeworkx: I think you should ignore any question here and push them to discuss there... at the link that you have post... BTW... thanks for your great works...
+100000000000
People, if you have questions, need any kind of help or need to discuss something not relevant for the devs: use the f*cking user thread!!! And do not report any bug here, do it through the issues list!!!
I wonder how can exist so many people that know how to write but not to understand what they read!!!
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