Related
I've read somewhere that the screen used in the HD/Blackstone actually is dual touch capabel.. anyone that nows for sertain`?
My understanding is that in a hardware sence it will work but nothing is programmed for it, im not even sure if the drivers for it are enabled to do it.
Ok, but if the hardware is capable, then it should be possible for some clever minds to make propper modifications to whatever programs that could make use of dual touch.. ?
Any one up for a cool task?
I'm afraid this will be futile. The screen is resistive not capacitive. I'm not an expert, though.
Dual touch is out of the window now since APPLE has patented this technology i believe...
Resistive screens can support multi touch, there is a program on the diamond that proves this. Windows 7 (thats windows 7 not windows mobile 7) supports multitouch so its not apple only.
touch hd is not multi touch
Hmmm, the screen on the HD is resistive. The hardware drivers for this normally produce only a single set of x/y data. Technically it is possible on a resistive screen to produce multi-touch coordinates. BUT, it depends on the hardware implementation.
It is most unlikely that HTC have built-in multi-touch.
My understanding of the Diamond and Touch Pro multi-touch experiments is that they are using the two screen segments (vga and the bottom button segment).
the problem is nobody knows, apparently the device can display more than 65k colours, but until the software catches up to match we will never see it.
you can simulate a dual touch behaviour on every single touch screen.
Actually, when you touch the screen on a point, keep your finger on it, touch a second point with you second finger : from the windows dirver side, windows sees a mouse/pointer coordinate that gives the position of the center of the line segment between your both fingers.
For instance:
Put the first finger on the upper left corner, after that, put your second finger on the center .... Windows mouse event will return a "jump" at the position corresponding to a position at the upper-left of the center, between your both finger. So a piece of software could supposed that a second finger is on the screen. If you don't move your first finger, but just the second one, windows mouse/touch driver will report you the move corresponding to the half second finger move.
I saw a video on youtube about multitouch simulation ... and if you see them, you will notice that the first finger doesn't move. So i suppose that they use the method i had exposed above.
xtac said:
Dual touch is out of the window now since APPLE has patented this technology i believe...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither dual nor multi touch is pattented by apple (those patents actually belong to microsoft, as they developed the technology; as i was told by Microsoft developers/recruiters a couple months back), what apple just got patents for (simply to try and swindle money out of other companies later) are the gestures for the UI. Although the multi touch might be/probably is possible on the HD (as the diamond supports it) on the hardware level, developing the software would be difficult and I'd expect no help on part of HTC (as it would be unlikely for any company, especially one that produces so many phones, to go back and practically reinvent the UI on an existing phone). So although the possibility is most likely there, it would be highly unlikely that we'll ever see it. (Though a multi touch Android running on the HD with the right drivers would be nice)
the diamond has multitouch capability on the capacitive area below the screen, unfortunately the HD doesnt.
Im sure one day windows mobile will have Multitouch, we just have to see how how it plays out between Palm and Apple because palm uses the same gesture (pinch) which Apple apparently has a patent to.
If apple does bring forward a lawsuit and fails then we may well see multitouch on windows mobile very soon, but if apple wins: too bad for us.
My 2 cents:
I do not like dual touch!
I like to hold my HD in my palm and use my thumb to operate it. That way I only need one hand to use it. I love the photos program that allows you to zoom in and zoom out by circling something on the screen. I wish the browser and ALL other applictions supported this!
Everdog said:
My 2 cents:
I do not like dual touch!
I like to hold my HD in my palm and use my thumb to operate it. That way I only need one hand to use it. I love the photos program that allows you to zoom in and zoom out by circling something on the screen. I wish the browser and ALL other applictions supported this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that! (though texting/internet/video in landscape is also nice)
In some programs such as Microsoft word, if you move your finger on the screen, the screen will move up/down. But if you move your nail or stylus on the screen, the text will be selected.
How does HD distinguish between finger tip and stylus? I think it is a function of dual touch tool.
ok.. it recognizes the area of pressure unlike the light sensors to detect the position on capacitive screens(iphone).
HD cant recognize more than 1 touch because area of pressures moves in middle of 2 fingers.
in reply to monolithHD, HD can differentiate size of pressure and operate events accordingly,
for example using slylus is more difficult to scroll trough list of All programs or contacts than your finger
i was hoping for the buttons area to be capacitive like in diamond and pro but unfortunately they are not.. i can operate those buttons from my stylus also. capacitive screens generally cant be operated by stylus.
eventually we will have lot of devices and application with multitouch and we will miss it even more because HD also doesn't have many hardware buttons.
anyway be happy with whatever you got.
Ok, to clarify a little here.. some say: Capasitiv screens DO support dual touch (like the iphone) Resistive screens DOES NOT support...
Well.. final question from me then.. Anyone tried the Android G1 HTC mobile?..Is that a capasitiv or resistive screen? Because G1 DOES in fact support dual touch...
Anyone?
When you run the Xperia fish panel on the Touch HD.
And you press the screen with both fingers. The fish will swim to the middle of where you're 2 fingers are located......
This also is the same on the Xperia. And the Xperia has dual touch, So I would say Touch HD also has dual touch....
It's difficult to understand why the HD touchscreen can't be multitouch... The touchscreen panel is plenty of sensors (which in fact I can see too well on my HD, as said in other post). Can't two sensors send the signal at the same time? Also, we all agree that the HD can tell if you are pressing with your finger or with the stylus, because it can detect the size of the area you are touching... so even more difficult to understand.
Of course, this must have a good technical explanation, these are just my thoughts...
G1 screen is capacitive and supports Multi-touch.
Xperia X1 and touch HD screen is resistive which DOESN'T support multitouch.
In Xparia panel, if fishes move in the middle of 2 fingers that means it simply selects middle point as pressure area of the 2 figures, or in other sense it recognizes all space between 2 fingers as 1 GIANT finger.. i hope this will clear confusions.
I have an idea that I think is unique; I can't seem to find anything related to it on xda or google, so forgive me if this already exists and is just too obvious for me to find it. Also I’m not sure if this is posted in the appropriate place since I’m not actually offering anything other than a simple idea. I am not a programmer and would have not way of testing or implementing this concept.
I often find myself repeatedly hitting little check boxes and links on my Windows phone. Even on a perfectly calibrated screen, it can be difficult for my fat finger to find the right spot. I particularly have problems with X/OK button and the Start menu at the top corners of the screen. I’m assuming that soft-buttons, text fields, etc in windows mobile have a defined border that accepts touch input. If the screen detects your touch outside of this box, it will not register. I propose a software solution to this.
I’ve included a simple illustration that hopefully makes this clearer. Also, anyone feel free to tell me this won’t work, that it’s already been done, etc. Rather than having a single box that is awaiting a single touch input, imagine if there were dozens of boxes surrounding the soft-key, each with an assigned value. As the boxes radiate out, the values would decrease. Input happens when the values add up to a predefined amount, which equals a touch. This way, if you click close to the box, but not quite, the screen will register where you are actually touching and make a decision (by adding up the values) of where you were actually trying to touch.
Hopefully the picture helps. I mentioned my lack of programming ability, and that applies to graphic design as well
All feedback is appreciated, and if anyone has the skills and knowledge to do this, let me know if you’re interested. I’d love to see the results.
That's pretty smart, actually; sort of like making our resistive touchscreens emulate capacitive ones.
I am another person who feels this is rather clever.
Sadly i am too a bit naff at programming :/
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I've made a better mock up now that I'm at home and have access to something besides MS Paint. I'm hoping to run across someone with the know-how, willingness, and energy to work up a proof-of-concept.
As a clearer example, in the new image, the red circles could equal 50, the green squares 25, and the blue squares 10. An equation taking sensitivity into account would be better (hard touch equals higher value with a multiplier for the closer circles). Say 100 was the thresh-hold for the screen to register a click on the box. Two reds, one red and two greens, and so on, anything that adds up to 100, would register. There could also be multiple boxes close together, each with their own set of concentric circles.
Another useful way of thinking about this is the elementary difference between accuracy and precision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision
Screen calibration takes care of precision; I think this would provide accuracy.
Edit: I also wanted to add I was thinking of probability clouds when I came up with this. What can I say, I have a boring job.
Wow. Great idea, but I' not the one to program it! I'm surely someone will be up to the task though.
anything that makes hitting the stupid ok button easier is great in my book!
This won't work. There are no "boxes" like you speak of. The touch screen gives the OS the POINT where it was pressed. The OS converts that into pixels sees what is under the pushed pixel and selects that. Very similar to how a desktop works. The mouse only clicks one pixel and those interactive touch screen things you see at stores where you can see the moues move to where you pressed further illustrate it.
Multi Touch screens report that area that was pressed instead of just one point, but no WinMo phones have multi touch.
petard said:
This won't work. There are no "boxes" like you speak of. The touch screen gives the OS the POINT where it was pressed. The OS converts that into pixels sees what is under the pushed pixel and selects that. Very similar to how a desktop works. The mouse only clicks one pixel and those interactive touch screen things you see at stores where you can see the moues move to where you pressed further illustrate it.
Multi Touch screens report that area that was pressed instead of just one point, but no WinMo phones have multi touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is helpful; thanks for the insight. I tried to find info on exactly how resistive touch screens worked, but it tended to be technical specs rather than how the OS used them. If it is narrowing it down to a pixel, then I see what you're saying: it won't work. If the point of contact was read as a larger, single area (as opposed to one pixel), it would be possible. Couldn't a GUI simply draw a circle around that single point? Then the area contained in that circle could be used to predict the button/icon you're trying to press using the values of the "boxes" or circles underneath.
Again, I was bored at work and was thinking about how hard it is to hit the OK button sometimes. Oh well, it killed about 2 hours
Yesterday I purchased a HD2 also called Leo, running original WWE ROM from HTC
I have installed several apps including Sloved dictionaries, Lingosoft dictionaries.
Some are in "touch mode" version, some are not. Those apps who are NOT in touch mode, are virtually impossible to operate, due to the new screen. Small Icons and scroll down menu are almost impossible to "touch" they never give the correct results.
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
The thumb and the finger tip areas (which is the only area which can input into the device) are too gross and wide to be precise....
You need to use the soft part of the finger (I guess in English it is called finger tip, or end of the finger), below the nail, in order to have the screen react to your inputs.
I have tried many times: in my software the small icons on top bars, and all scroll down menus ARE TOO SMALL to be tipped with finger tip or thumb tip.
They cannot accessed, or they give wrong results or you need tens of attempts to get it right. Most of the time inputs are not responsive, sometimes they are, with unpredictable or wrong results (for example you open phone ring scroll down menu and click on a ring type "A" and the phone interpret as ring type "C")
This is terrible...altough I admit the 4.3" screen is awesome and superb...What can be done?
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Thanks a lot
Saulo
saulo866 said:
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try pinch zooming.
saulo866 said:
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will, but it may take some time and won't happen overnight. They will have to do it to stay alive because of WM7 compatibility requirements.
It may be a (huge) inconvenience for some users like you, but it's a trend that won't be reversed.
Congrats on the new handset.
saulo866 said:
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen on the HD2 and the iPhone is capacitive, not resistive.
saulo866 said:
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use a special kind of stylus, I believe some people have bought one for the iPhone on ebay. Also, HTC has patented a magnet tipped stylus which will work on capacitive touchscreens. As the HD2 is built with a 4.3 inch screen I don't think there will be much problems.
I can use my X1 without a stylus just fine.
Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks
zolom said:
Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.
I tried to use morph gear on mine and NONE of the buttons work at all.
I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it. Window mobile would not be able to enjoy this benefit now. I hope WM7 would change that.
madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC have licenced one already...
DinoZ1 said:
HTC have licenced one already...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have filed a patent yes. They haven't made it yet tho. Certainly not to the general consumer.
That's B.S
If you use softwares from 1996 then sure, it won't be finger friendly.
Almost all software from recent year are finger compatible.
I just went through all the software installed on my touch HD, from about 30 software installed zero are not finger friendly. The only thing I have non finger friendly is some of the WM6.1 screens.
madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!
I don't understand .. sure, it's harder to press small elements. But even now a lot of software is finger friendly, and the trend will only get stronger. Actually I use only fingers with my current X1, I use stylus like once per week, since some parts of WM 6,1 can't be used well with fingers.
Is there some other problem ? What do you mean by exclusive HD2 support ?
newuser888 said:
I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, and, I believe, for many others, the major advantage of a capacitive screen is the glass screen surface and no need to use those stupid screen protectors anymore. I don't use outdated apps with tiny elements though, so it's not a big deal for me. If you are tied to them for some reason then it's a different story I guess...
well it doesnt need to be exclusiveto the hd2... just finger friendly would do the trick... I use my stylus only on some drop-down menus...
Exemple of applications which are NOT working??
I got mine few minutes ago, I am using it, and I dont have ANY problem with tiny elements, maybe sometimes you need to click 2 times but nothing. 0 problems for me.
This device is fracking awesome.
precsmo said:
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did get the point. He said small menus are hard to press without a stylus.
I am asking why he finds this, as with a bigger screen (same resolution) the menus are now bigger. If I can use a small menu with my finger on the X1, the SIZE of the icon will be bigger on the HD2 (given the increase in screen size).
I wasn't saying that capacitive and resistive react the same way to a finger press. All the apps need, is to become finger friendly.
They won't react any differently on the HD2. Unless you have a drawing application you use, in which case that will be different.
But my original point still stands. The icons shouldn't be any harder to press on the HD2 as they will be bigger than on an X1 (I have smallish hands, but quite chunky fingers. I have press icons on the X1 fine, so I'm not worried about them on the HD2).
Even with big fingers, it's just a matter of skill. The phone detects center of pressed area and it always sends single point to the application. It does not mean that you can't press very small element with big finger, it just may be harder to hit.
I recommend simply trusting the device, not trying to do anything special ..
let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible
saulo866 said:
let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just carry a laptop round with you that has MyPhone installed on it and use that. Simple!
i've searched for ways to open up other rotation angles as well as autorotation for any and all apps under the sun. most people suggest bsbtweaks and it really does do the job, but only rotates to the allowed 270degrees angle (thats -90degrees). effectively, it just adds the window class to the list of window classes that the built in HTC g-sensor mechanism will give respect to.
so i looked some more and found "changescreen" to fit the bill. after setting up exceptions, it works quite well to allow all other applications (except for the exceptions which include sense) to rotate to 90degrees, 180degrees (this looks way cool some times!), and the usual 270degrees.
HOWEVER, the point of this new thread is to discuss something that seems to be quite an attractive option if it can be made to work 100%. i've noticed that the onscreen landscape keyboard is MUCH more usable in the 90degrees rotation. this is because those damned cursor keys take up 0.5 inch of space that is balanced out by the hardware keys on the other side, thus placing the rest of the keyboard SQUARELY in the middle of your thumbs! contrast this with the experience on the default 270degrees rotation where the cursor keys and hardware keys end up on the same side, forcing the user to stretch out the right hand thumb to reach the middle of the keyboard.
the amazing thing is that keyboard really works 99% properly in the 90degrees orientation. the 1% catch? the little preview squares that appear while tapping a key seem to be using a buggy rotation matrix when the screen is in this angle! effectively, this makes the preview squares upside down and on the wrong side of the center line of the keyboard!
so for me, TWO things would make life much sweeter on the HD2:
1. keyboard preview squares should appear right side up and on the correct area near the tapped key in 90degree rotation.
2. i would also like to DISABLE the 270degree rotation altogether and force the HTC g-sensor mechanism to think that the 90degree rotation is DEFAULT. i know i can achieve this partially using "changescreen" but sense will still rotate ONLY in the 270degree direction in the album and music tab. with this tweak, one can rely on the built in mechanism and also be able to enjoy the keyboard in the more comfortable 90degree rotation.
any 1337 h4x0r222 with some 1337 suggestions/tweaks?
some updates...
first, there is another anomaly i didn't notice before pertaining to the thumb friendly scroller that pops up when touching a scroll bar. this popup scroller is also being drawn upside down and on the wrong side of the screen in 90degree rotation.
other updates include:
1. tried toggling HKLM\System\GDI\Rotation\LandscapeMode from 0 to 4, followed by soft reset, no joy!
2. tried toggling HKLM\System\GDI\Rotation\LandscapeFixed from 1 to 0, followed by soft reset...the right handed and left handed options in Screen under Settings->System become available but the g-sensor autorotate doesn't seem to respect the choice set here, so no joy!
So this is really noticeable when Im viewing documents in Adobe Reader and trying to move the screen to a specific point or drag the slider to a specific page. When removing my finger from the screen it always registers as a slight motion and sets me off several pages (In a 1000 pg text book) or moves the page from where I wanted to position it.
I have SGS Touchscreen booster on CM9 under Super Optimized but I am trying to get rid of that little motion when lifting your finger up. I know its like that for most Android devices though so I suspect there's not too much to do about it, but iDevices do handle that pretty well in comparison.