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I bought the HTC Touch HD a few weeks ago and noticed that the accuracy is not just bad, but atrocious. It can't even locate me within a 300 meter radius. Is that normal? Does anyone else have this problem? I am using the latest Google Maps.
Thanks in advanced.
I would try a proper GPS program and see if it is the same, if so your HD is faulty.
No problem here. .Maybe silly question, but did you click on "Use GPS"?
--cheerios
skotler said:
I bought the HTC Touch HD a few weeks ago and noticed that the accuracy is not just bad, but atrocious. It can't even locate me within a 300 meter radius. Is that normal? Does anyone else have this problem? I am using the latest Google Maps.
Thanks in advanced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you have a satalite lock? Google maps also determines position from cell towers and gives an estimate to your location within approx 500M. Once gps is activated and satlites have been aquired, a more accurate position is displayed (and i get a blue triange above the location - i guess to indicate actual position).
The little blue trianlge shows the direction you're moving - so the GPS is pretty accurate! Sometimes it doesn't get a lock for a while (it'll say at the top-right when it has active satellites) - if not, then it just uses that cell tower triangulation thing which gets it within about 500m as mentioned above.
aabye said:
No problem here. .Maybe silly question, but did you click on "Use GPS"?
--cheerios
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, it is on.
It can get working when I'm on the move, but as soon as I am still, it screws up. For instance, I can be driving to work and it works fine as far as telling me where I am at the moment. As soon as I close it and reopen it at work, it tells me I am somewhere 300-500 meters from work.
I guess I don't understand how it can work so well on the move, but as soon as I need an accurate reading, it is way off. Does this happen to anyone else?
skotler said:
Ya, it is on.
It can get working when I'm on the move, but as soon as I am still, it screws up. For instance, I can be driving to work and it works fine as far as telling me where I am at the moment. As soon as I close it and reopen it at work, it tells me I am somewhere 300-500 meters from work.
I guess I don't understand how it can work so well on the move, but as soon as I need an accurate reading, it is way off. Does this happen to anyone else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once it's closed it loses the "Use GPS" setting and you have to turn that back on and wait for the Satellites to be located all over again.
Well i think there is a gps delay issue with the latest HTC phones as blackstone, Raphael and diamond and i believe there is a little on the x1. Well there will is always ways to tweak settings in the registry i guess. well you'll probably find something here at xda...
Ok, I see what you are saying...sa we speak, I am trying to get the location of where I am at on my phone. The status has been on "Seeking GPS satellites (0)" for about 3 minutes now. It just relocated my location nowhere near me.
Ok, I just got a message telling me that my "GPS receiver is having trouble tracking GPS satellites." It's a very clear night in southern California, no clouds, no trees, etc...If it is because I can't get a satellite, is there a way to configure it?
Can it be because I am inside my house? If so, that is absurd!
skotler said:
Ok, I see what you are saying...sa we speak, I am trying to get the location of where I am at on my phone. The status has been on "Seeking GPS satellites (0)" for about 3 minutes now. It just relocated my location nowhere near me.
Ok, I just got a message telling me that my "GPS receiver is having trouble tracking GPS satellites." It's a very clear night in southern California, no clouds, no trees, etc...If it is because I can't get a satellite, is there a way to configure it?
Can it be because I am inside my house? If so, that is absurd!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i suggest you to go out and test it.. well also i suggest you to always keep your quick gps application updated so you'll get a quick fix locked to sattelites.. my Raphael locks on around 20-30 seconds and sometimes even less....
no problem here!
i've tested head to head with my old Asus P535 SirfIII (wich is pretty good as gps) on a 300km trip and they react in the same way.
no lag, no errors.
i use iGO8!
Well i found this on youtube: omnia vs HD in gps...
i am aware of that greek clip
what can i say? they have their experience, i have mine.
from my experience i say the gps of hd is good enough, as long as i don't make maps and i don't need precision on cm level
GPS works great on HD. Tested with IGO8 and latest TomTom, as well as Google Maps - all have accuracy within 5m range, wich is more then enough for normal navigation use.
I also tested my HD along side with Garmin car navigation unit - they were literary synchronized to the very second, even the voice instructions came at the same time, it was actually very funny
If you're having problems, I suggest you look up here on the forum for HTC GPS tool.
Well just to say, I agree with you guys eventhough i have a Raphael.. well i guess the gps chipset are the same.. (correct me if im wrong though) .. well many people in the Raphael community is talking about 50 - 100 yards lag but i only experience 5m, the most ive experienced was 10m but that was just once..
GPS doesn't work inside. Not just on the Touch HD but on any GPS device.
At the most, my lag is a car's length. I think my Trinity was slightly more accurated but not by much.
As far as getting a lock from inside, I can occaisionally get a lock if I am sat by my West facing window, but otherwise not a chance!
Ok, I got it working! I guess it just takes a couple minutes without touching any keys to acquire the satellites.
So in conclusion, to impatient people like me, don't touch any keys for a good minute or two. Thanks, guys!
HandGrip said:
GPS doesn't work inside. Not just on the Touch HD but on any GPS device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine does. Can take about a minute/minute and a half to lock to the satalites, usually finds about 9 of them, and from google maps when zoomed in to max you can see roughly where abouts in the house the handset is.
The cell tower lock is useless. I'm in the north west of england. The cell lock feature keeps telling me I'm in Russia!!
like all gps i have used, sometimes getting a fix is hard work, regardless of apparent sky conditions.... i guess thats what happens when technology (the gps sats) are made by the lowest bidder
if you have a "your postion within 300-500m" message displayed, then that is using the cell mast to get your position, you never see this message when using GPS
some progs and some roms prefer to have the gps ports mapped, i do it manually for all my gps progs using com4 and bit rate of 9600k... seems to offer best situation
afaik, no civilian GPS can assure an accuracy of greater then 15m, although some units some of the time seem to be more precise
i dont see lag, i see the limitations of GPS (outside of military application... but then again, we've seen how accurate smart bombs are not!!)
Hi i have weird problem with my GPS.
While I driving (car is moving) everything is beauty and sweet but once I stop my car my GPS is still moving for about 10 sometimes 20 sec showing 2km/h then 0km/h then 2km/h again. Sometimes when I stop car on junction my Gps will jump on the perpendicular road and from time to time my arrow on the map just turn around to opposite direction and the maps sets a new route! Once i move my car everything going back to normal.
I was using first my TomTom and i just thought it`s a map problem although i haven`t problem with that on my Rhodium either X1. So I decided to try Igo8 and it`s exactly this same. Even on the roundabout my gps can jump somewhere else on different road.
I tried all Radios available for HD2, many Roms and just have no idea what more I can do. Many people on HD2 forum in Poland have this same problem.
I also tried GPS fix cab downloaded here from xda but no luck its ever worst.
I can add that i'm getting GPS fix in few second so its good the problem is just my gps is moving around.
PS. Very, very rarely have no problem with this jumpin gps around. But is like 1/30.
Do you have access to an external Bluetooth GPS receiver you can test out? That could eliminate or isolate some possibilities.
balane said:
Do you have access to an external Bluetooth GPS receiver you can test out? That could eliminate or isolate some possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unfortunately i don`t. but on my Touch Pro 2 and Xperia never had this problem.
hi,
are you using the 'gpsmoddriver' software, that is floating around here in the forum?. its made for using the compass data when no gps fix is available. it causes such failures in igo and copilot on my hd2. after uninstalling it gps works much more percise to me, when im not moving.
regards mad
Happens with mine as well. I have replaced my HD2 and it seems that the 2nd unit acts the same. tried various ROMs/RADIOs (official/cooked) - nothing seemed to fix this.
It's quite funny though... most of the people rather paying attention to the fix time instead of the accuracy (which is quite bad imo) in addition to this weird phenomenon. I doubt that the AGPS is somehow related, but it will be nice to know how to disable this feature, and try to acquire the signal without it. maybe this is the cause.
Btw, check this out - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600232
Fatherboard said:
Happens with mine as well. I have replaced my HD2 and it seems that the 2nd unit acts the same. tried various ROMs/RADIOs (official/cooked) - nothing seemed to fix this.
It's quite funny though... most of the people rather paying attention to the fix time instead of the accuracy (which is quite bad imo) in addition to this weird phenomenon. I doubt that the AGPS is somehow related, but it will be nice to know how to disable this feature, and try to acquire the signal without it. maybe this is the cause.
Btw, check this out - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600232
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agps - this feature is available in NRGZ roms. I tried to turn on and off and it was no different.
PS. thanks for answering.
madbird said:
hi,
are you using the 'gpsmoddriver' software, that is floating around here in the forum?. its made for using the compass data when no gps fix is available. it causes such failures in igo and copilot on my hd2. after uninstalling it gps works much more percise to me, when im not moving.
regards mad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i said before : i was using it. I had feelings its jumping around the places more than without it so I uninstalled it.
Tried to email HTC regarding this. they claim that their HD2's don't exhibit this behavior, even though I've tried two different units, from different batches.
I don't know what to do... this drives IGO nuts - it causes igo to switch lanes, directions and having the route recalculated without any good reason.
Fatherboard said:
Tried to email HTC regarding this. they claim that their HD2's don't exhibit this behavior, even though I've tried two different units, from different batches.
I don't know what to do... this drives IGO nuts - it causes igo to switch lanes, directions and having the route recalculated without any good reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes its just pointless to talk with those dickheads.
They ll never say true.
With pink camera was this same. They were saying at the beginning that they have no problem with pink spot at all. And what was next? We need just more people to email or ring them.
Most of them even not using HD2. They've seen for few minutes and think they'll know everything about it.
It was so many bugs with this device they just dont want to hear about another one!
In addition to that, both of my units tended to show different position and altitude readings each time i powered up igo or google maps. while exhibiting the differences I obviously didn't from my current position, not even an inch.
to try to make things clearer. that's what I did :
loading igo -> acquiring signal within seconds -> getting a certain position reading with altitude of 11 meters (for example) -> quit -> reloading igo -> acquiring signal within seconds -> slightly different position, altitude of 75 meters or a negative value (for example).
even the small blinking dot in igo (which determines the actual gps mark) doesn't fit to my physical location on the road which I'm currently driving on. it sometimes blinks few meters to the right/left, and sometimes it tracks behind the guidance arrow (as it should be).
Could be
Simply a limitation of GPS. I have seen it on other GPS's. Garmin etrex. Try walking with one and even thou you are walking in a straight line it plots a zigzag path. More satelites (10+) should reduce this issue.
Basically the GPS is only accurate to a certain range from +-50m to +- 2 meters depending on the no of sats. The location is detemined by timing from when the signal was sent to when it was received. Calcs how far away the sat is (Speed of light??). It is possible you care getting a fluctuation in your current location. Eg
Sample 1 says you are point a.
Sample 2 says you are 2 meters to the right.
Sample 3 says you are 2 meters to the left.
Still in the +- 5 meters but the gps is plotting you moving backwards and forwards.
Guys, it is a problem everyone has, gps position is not as accurate or stable on the hd2 as on most other htc devices. And with an erratic gps position automatically comes an erratic speed. Don't know yet if it is because of a different gps module that's inside the hd2 or because of the inclusion of crappy gps drivers. Will try to find out soon....
Anyway, gpsmoddriver is not the cause of this problem since the problem is also on an hd2 without having gpsmoddriver installed. Because of the functionality of gpsmoddriver to improve the gps readings, in some cases it can amplify your erratic gps position, and that is also what some of you have been experiencing. Remember you can always use gpsmoddriver to add the hardware compass functionality to your navigation software, while additionally configuring gpsmoddriver to leave gps data untouched so it won't make the erratic position and speed worse. For more info or help, please visit the gpsmoddriver thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=571266
EDIT: Of course the HD2 has a new snapdragon chip which has built-in GPS just like many previous generations of phones. Most likely qualcomm changed the way gps works in their new line of Snapdragon processors...
The movement of vehicles around you or even the movement of the sun's rays on buildings nearby can distort GPS signals. The GPS navigator software tries to rationalize this distortion and that usually appears as a movement when you are still. On the other hand, if you drive into a tunnel using TomTom and some other software, you will often see yourself driving straight on in the tunnel well after the GPS is receiving no more satellite signals.
In top-of-the-line built-in navigation systems, the GPS data is supplemented by inertial guidance. (Someone could create a similar supplement for the HD2 The supplementary information allows the system to reconcile the GPS information with information on your car's actual movement.
But for us mere mortals, we just have to live with it.
Well... this particular gps chip is quite useless, then. if my navigation program has to recalculate the route each time I stop at traffic light, then it seems that I either have to purchase a usb-based gps to pair with the HD2, or replace this device. I counted on it to perform well.
Fatherboard said:
Well... this particular gps chip is quite useless, then. if my navigation program has to recalculate the route each time I stop at traffic light, then it seems that I either have to purchase a usb-based gps to pair with the HD2, or replace this device. I counted on it to perform well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Complain to HTC, perhaps if they get enough complains they will come out with a hotfix or a rom upgrade that fixes it. Nobody said that the hardware is not that good (though it's possible), but it could also very well be a bad implementation by HTC!!
Already did.
They have obviously denied my complaints.
thanks again, anyway.
I noticed this behaviour yesterday night, at about 10pm. I was playing with NoniGPSplot, and while I was completely still (and freezing me arse outside believe me), it was tracking a movement back and fro and all around in small step, keeping track of me traveling some meters still while I was standing in the same point.
It was night and I was in my big yard, so no sunrays nor moving vehicles around nor buildings over my head.
I think this behaviour is very well hidden in tomtom since it automatically puts you on a road, and "smoothens" the gps data by making you follow that road no matter what, but a "realtime" software like nonigps tracks that all so well. Gonna notify htc about it now.
Guys, let's not go overboard on this. Non-military GPS is only claimed accurate to around 20 metres, regardless of the quality of the receiver. It's the US Defense Department messing with your HD2, not HTC.
Stephen Selby said:
Guys, let's not go overboard on this. Non-military GPS is only claimed accurate to around 20 metres, regardless of the quality of the receiver. It's the US Defense Department messing with your HD2, not HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, absolutely, I've noticed the same behaviour with all three of the BlueTooth GPS I used in the past. So, I would not be too quick to blame HTC for this.
my touch cruise's gps receiver worked with static navigation enabled to avoid this false movement. maybe this is just a usual behaviour?
Agree to that.
But regardless of the fact that the thing is not a military GPS system, It should do it's work correctly as for me the GPS is almost useless when driving slow or within a city. My 2nd phone (HTC DIAMOND) and 3 personal navigation devices are mounted in my car to compare and all work fine when the HD2 isn’t .
The GPS looses all the time the fix to the satellites and then quickly gets the fix back. when using a GPS monitor you can see that the satellites constantly moving really rapidly. (moving --> getting fix and loosing it again)
This is for 4 other reference devices which are running simultaneously not the case so it seems really an issue with the GPS device.
I tested this with different ROMs (1.44 Vodafone, 0.6 dutty WM 6.5.5, 1.66 stock and another one I cannot recall the producer anymore.)
Hi... I'm very familiar with the difficulty the epic gps has with locking. I do experience this problem, but the thing that bothers me even more is that when it *does* lock (after a reboot or whatever), it's surprisingly inaccurate. When I open up google maps, it will have me down the street a ways, off anywhere from 50-200 feet. Just to clarify - it is pinpointing me... i'm not within a large blue circle. Gpsstatus reports 7/7 satellites locking. Rebooting doesn't help. It works fine for navigation... when I'm moving and it can "snap" to the road and whatnot. But if I'm just stationary, it's off by an unacceptably large amount.
In the same location, I've used my pre and my girlfriend's EVO, and found that those gps get them within just a few meters at max.
Has anyone else experienced this? Found a solution? Or at least an explanation... Is this a known issue that I've just missed until now, or is this something that might mean I have a dud phone and should look into returning?
This post is intended for troubleshooting and finding solution to the GPS on Galaxy S ONLY
For arguing, dissing, and the sort, please go in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=722476
Post here your findings, your solutions and your attempt at finding a better fix for the GPS.
If you happend to try something and it doesn't work, please state it also
And keep away from none relevant facts
Here's my finding so far:
The way the device is put (in a pocket or in a car) seems to greatly influence the signal and the streight of it. The antenna is (apparently) situated in the upper left part of the backplate, just outward by the Sim card. if the signal is obstucted or not facing the right spot, it might get a hard time getting a fix.
Someone might confirm this and I will try to record a couple of track while the device is place differently in my pocket to confirm it has an effect.
I'm using it for:
Mostly keeping track of my working with Sporty Pal. As for now, I get an error rate of under 3%, wich is acceptable as far as I go but a lower rate would certainly be taken
As for navigations and Trapster, it's still pretty "on the spot", I'm drinving a 1995 Acura Integra, so I don't know if the insulation of the vehicule could affect the signal and the device is always on a spot where it "sees" the sky.
Settings used
*#*#1472365#*#*
Session Type: Tracking
Test Mode: S/W Test
Operation Mode: Standalone
Start Mode: Hot Start
GPS Plus: ON
Dynamic Accuracy: ON (Please note, putting it to "off" will make the GPS lose signal way too often...
Accuracy: 20
Use SkyHook: OFF
Use PC Tool: OFF
Location Settings
Use Wireless Network: OFF
Use GPS Satellites: ON
Phone Info
FirmWare version:2.1 update1
Baseband:I9000UGJH2
Build Number: Eclair.UGJH2
LagFix used: None
Rooted using: None
Uptime about 16h
Known Workaround
1-TrackerBooster (available on the market)
This is a booster for the GPS, if you have issue where the position goes all around randomly, try installing and running this apps before running your GPS application. It was tested with SportyPal and gave amazing result.
2-BlueTooth GPS, some users have tested this solution here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=818688
you can most likely find one under 30$ and it should resolve the issue.
t1mman said:
Settings used:
#*#*1472365#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*#*#1472365#*#*
should work better. (Does not work on Froyo JPM).
well lets start with listing the known solutions
like for example using the external GPS receivers via Bluetooth
there are several tested and working Bluetooth GPS apps by our members in the Galaxy S I9000 Themes and Apps section of the forum
Thanks, corrected!
I did start a thread posting 2 videos with "solutions" where users can actually see those "gps solutions" in action eliminating any kind of speculation (seeing is believing), but the thread was removed with no warning or explanation...
Anyway here are the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2gm5DAOjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6QnNMxuCig&feature=related
In both videos, sgs's gps performance is flawless with or WITHOUT any assist (2nd video)like agps or aid of from an external bluetooth gps receiver (like in the first video).
In the meantime I already did 5 more driving tests, always running Motonav and so far no need for using my external bluetooth gps device.
The firmware is JPH, not customized and no lag-fix of any kind (not needed)
« »
Right, I dont want to start an argument and the video's above are very usefull.
But I think it's possible that the navigation software you are using is optimised and more than likely programmed to keep you on the road, rather than drifting all over the place.
I noticed this while in the car earlier. When using "google maps" my position was often miles out and all over, however when using the "google navigation" it kept me on the road and appeared to track my location really well.
So from a navigation by road point of view I don't have a problem.
So i thought a compare of SNR levels compared to a differant phone might help, so i took a photo of my sgs running GPS Test, next to a Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade. Both are running froyo, both had gps and a-gps turned on. Both were next to eachother, both were left to settle for five minutes after the apps were started. Both were connected to exactly the same wifi connection. Finally the ZTE was connected to 02 network, and the sgs is on orange.
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From what you can see in the photo's the levels are pretty similar. Maybe with the sgs gaining a higher level on average compared over all satelittes it found.
Now with both devices sat next to eachother this is fine, however on moving around the sgs kept loosing its lock on the sattelites and stopped using them, however the blade kept its lock better. The blade seemed to keep its lock even with the SNR of some satelittes getting very low, however the sgs lost its lock at a far greater snr level.
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
betoNL: Thanks for the TrackerBooster apps, I've done a run this evening with it and it's trully amazing!! With it, I don't see any "jumping around" issue at all. If anyone has any issues where the position goes "randomly", they should try TrackerBooster.
SkinBobUk: Thanks for the sharing, I'll try GPS test and post image with and without TrackerBooster to compare
personally iv used the gps quite a lot to navigate around the U.A.E and most of it was using the trapster program to keep an eye on radars/speed traps while driving.
testing the gps is totally random, the results are never improving, simply random.
sometimes id get a fix in seconds and other times it wouldn't (guess its an SGS thing), playing around the settings i found the best combination to be...
Session Type: Tracking
Test Mode: S/W Test
Operation Mode: MS Based
Start Mode: Hot Start
GPS Plus: ON
Dynamic Accuracy: ON
Accuracy: 500
Use SkyHook: ON
Use PC Tool: OFF
tho accuracy is high at 500 the test showed better lock on gps and a max of 20m error, with accuracy i found out that the smaller the number , the harder it is for gps to get/maintain a lock ( even with high SnR numbers between 25-40 maintaining a lock was hard, the SGS was jumping around which gps to lock on ) and with a high number it would maintain the lock for a longer period of time. Highest i found was 500 and anything beyond that wont even activate the gps when running the get position test.
last weekend iv been on a fishing trip and needed the gps help , it was working amazingly accurate up to 5m error thruout the trip but every 5 minutes or so it would hang/freeze and the solution was to restart the program which was fine by me.
Conclution is that GPS is simply unreliable being in its Random State
(when under a lot of testing the gps would freeze/hang and a phone restart is needed to get it back up {switching gps off and back on doesn't help}) , i found a small app in the market called GPS optimisation by octy which should optimise signal reception but for me it doesn't but rather fixes the gps and gets it back from its frozen/hung state - time it takes to restart the phone = more than a min but this app does it in seconds
hope this accuracy options helps you people out in getting better/longer locks on gps
I also use tracker booster with sportypal combined, it provide great accuracy
SkinBobUk said:
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
got the same feeling/issues/feedback when i tested the gps. trackerbooster and equivalent apps didn't really help me with the "lost lock too easily" issue
when its locked it seems to work fine (accuracy wise), but it keep losing the lock of all sats at once every now and then
On my SGS I have found that if I hold it with the screen vertical or tilted back slightly I get significantly higher signal than if it is horizontal. Also portrait is better than landscape by 2-3 dB.
Please write your firmware / Rom info and if it's stock or with Root/Lagfix
Currently, the only conclusion I can make is this combination is running flawlessly:
Accuracy on 20
Rom on JH2 (Stock for BellCanada)
TrackerBooster installed/enabled
NO lagfix
NO rooting
Latest run with this combination is right on the spot so far as jogging, I can clearly see where I cross the street or when I ran into a parking lot.
Imho, there are no special fixes or special settings to improve sgs's gps performance, just some "assist" or a-gps if you will.
There are all kind of a-gps possibilities besides the "standard" one that uses cellular towers wich in many situations can be unreliable.
Other types of "assist" are implemented by using the right software to simply download "fresh ephemeris data and injecting it to accelerate the first lock during a cold start* .
The big issue (again, in my opinion) is WHY the majority of the smartphones nowadays (and with that I mean NOT ONLY the sgs), are equiped wich gps chipsets that will require 'ASSISTING" ??
A couple of years ago, experts of the GPSPassion forum performed a comparison test between devices equiped with a sirfstarIII chipset and others with a-gps and the conclusion
was as I quote:
CONCLUSION
While the Qualcomm gpsONE chipset of the HTC P3600 performs better than on the Siemens SXG75 Linux Smartphone where it could take 10+ minutes to get a fix, it remains much less effective than the SiRFstarIII chipset used on most current GPS PDAPhones . This comparison also shows the impact of GPS Assistance (A-GPS) to get a fix and reduce the time to guidance. Even the "offline A-GPS" of the Mio A701 helps significantly, while the "Full A-GPS"(SUPL) of the Orange SPV M650 will bring extra speed and more so as the conditions deteriorate.
Overall, the GPS performance of the SiRFstarIII PDAPhones is excellent and does not pale in comparison with the performance of dedicated GPS systems like the TomTom AIOs as seen in this comparison done in the same area. Let's hope the upcoming GPS PDAPhones like the HTC X7500, the Eten X800, the Mio A501, etc...will maintain these high standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(here is the whole article: http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=175&page=6)
Well, their hope was is vain, cause even the very expensive so called high-end smartphones,
just stoped using sirfstar III chipsets or equivalent and using a-gps dependable ones,forcing users to find, configure or re-invent A-GPS solutions!
The good news (at least for me) is that the gps chipset of the sgs is LESS A-gps dependable than many other smartphones I tested, and even if it wasnt, I can always rely on the aid of my external bluetooth gps receiver(equiped with a sirfstarIII chipset), since programs like "bluetooth gps mouse" and "gps provider" work like a charm on the Android OS (see my first video: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8876869&postcount=5).
Another issue is that Google maps could be unreliable for car navigation and of course unreliable for testing as well: http://forum.samdroid.net/f9/maps-navigation-bug-missing-value-gps-accuracy-1247/
Cheers
* - http://books.google.nl/books?id=2Cx...=cold start and hot start definitions&f=false
In the images earlier in the thread where someone posted two pics, one of the SGS and a matched one with another phone, the SGS seemed to be consistently 3 to 4 lower on the same satellite at the same time. That would likely be a hardware (antenna) issue, and could it be that is the problem with fluctuating results, that the reception is just too flaky?
To me, that is an eye opener. Id like to know if it would be likely for the software to cause a reported different in signal strength. You would think that the reported signal strength would be unchanged from the chip, through the driver to the reporting software, no?
SkinBobUk said:
Right, I dont want to start an argument and the video's above are very usefull.
But I think it's possible that the navigation software you are using is optimised and more than likely programmed to keep you on the road, rather than drifting all over the place.
I noticed this while in the car earlier. When using "google maps" my position was often miles out and all over, however when using the "google navigation" it kept me on the road and appeared to track my location really well.
So from a navigation by road point of view I don't have a problem.
So i thought a compare of SNR levels compared to a differant phone might help, so i took a photo of my sgs running GPS Test, next to a Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade. Both are running froyo, both had gps and a-gps turned on. Both were next to eachother, both were left to settle for five minutes after the apps were started. Both were connected to exactly the same wifi connection. Finally the ZTE was connected to 02 network, and the sgs is on orange.
From what you can see in the photo's the levels are pretty similar. Maybe with the sgs gaining a higher level on average compared over all satelittes it found.
Now with both devices sat next to eachother this is fine, however on moving around the sgs kept loosing its lock on the sattelites and stopped using them, however the blade kept its lock better. The blade seemed to keep its lock even with the SNR of some satelittes getting very low, however the sgs lost its lock at a far greater snr level.
Now I don't know a great deal about gps, but it seemed to me like the sgs gave up its lock far easier than the blade. Maybe this is what is causing our problems, maybe once it has given up this lock, the sattelite information is decreased causing a less accurate location.
Now I don't know how this could be rectified, but I imagine it is either driver related, or maybe some code in the actual gps chip itself. But im not 100% sure. It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me could give us their two pence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank's for the input, but in wich conditions and where those pictures were taken? Are they taken with a camera or are they screenshots?
What I can say, eventhough I find OFFLINE software car navigation more reliable (and I always use up-to-date maps) they are not "optimized" to "keep me on the road" as you speculated, is more likely that the full A-gps (SUPL) on the Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade is better optimized than sgs's but then again that's speculation.
This discussion can go both ways:
A) The complicated way, mostly based on speculation, for instance: saying that Samsung or Google cannot handle A-gps protocols, I mean wich SUPL configurations to use, in wich regions, by wich carriers, with wich software and so on....
And: Nokia wants you to use the server "nokia.supl.com" on their phones and Google wants you to use "supl.google.com" on their phones, but how the different carriers, in different regions and the various software are dealing with those configurations? And again how to deal with full a-gps? And why do we have to( see my last post)?
B) The easy way: Just get a external bluetooth gps receiver (with a sifstarIII chipset or better) connect any gps software using "gps bluetooth mouse" or "gps provider" apps to it and get over with it !
I rest my case
P.s.- On my last 6 trips didnt even have to use the external gps, just the internal one...it is doing just fine;
i must have a specially blessed sgs or Holland is just a better place for gps navigation
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betoNL said:
What I can say, eventhough I find OFFLINE software car navigation more reliable (and I always use up-to-date maps) they are not "optimized" to "keep me on the road" as you speculated, is more likely that the full A-gps (SUPL) on the Orange Sanfrancisco/ZTE Blade is better optimized than sgs's but then again that's speculation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS is only necessary for the initial lock and yes, Navigon, iGo et al are optimized to keep the position on the road.
Oletros said:
A-GPS is only necessary for the initial lock and yes, Navigon, iGo et al are optimized to keep the position on the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple test is to drive down the road using google maps, then drive back using google navigation. The differance couldn;t be more clear.
They have to be optimised to keep people on the road, if not then there is a problem with google maps, and i doubt that!
SkinBobUk said:
A simple test is to drive down the road using google maps, then drive back using google navigation. The differance couldn;t be more clear.
They have to be optimised to keep people on the road, if not then there is a problem with google maps, and i doubt that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Google maps isn't perfect (if you check the satellite feeds, you'll notice the roads wont always align perfectly) , but anyway, you are correct. Car navigation apps do special work to allow large errors to be made by the GPS without freaking out. That wont work with normal tracks.
Testing consistancy
The problem here is that the testing must be consistent. What is needed is an application to:
1) Create tracks at the highest resolution possible
2) Record speed at many points
3) Maybe have OBD2 integration, so we can match REAL vehicle speed with the track
4) Record the satelites/snr values constantly on the track.
5) Have test scenarios, that takes into account the environment and speed. Because when walking at 1hz, updates of GPS are done every 2-3 meters, but at 100km/h, it's every 28m. We don't even have enough info to know how often updates are done, and some tracks are created by people who are in dense skyscraper ville. We simply can't compare the information at the moment
6) By comparing car tracks to google maps, you could even do some basic GPS benchmark type stuff!
Start with a proper testing procedure, create a means of gathering PROPER information, then we can finally start actually testing how reliable people's phones REALLY is! At the moment, we are simply comparing OPINIONS, because there aren't specific tests to follow. There is nothing scientific about this thread until a process to accurately compare results is created.
andrewluecke said:
Actually, Google maps isn't perfect (if you check the satellite feeds, you'll notice the roads wont always align perfectly) , but anyway, you are correct. Car navigation apps do special work to allow large errors to be made by the GPS without freaking out. That wont work with normal tracks.
Testing consistancy
The problem here is that the testing must be consistent. What is needed is an application to:
1) Create tracks at the highest resolution possible
2) Record speed at many points
3) Maybe have OBD2 integration, so we can match REAL vehicle speed with the track
4) Record the satelites/snr values constantly on the track.
5) Have test scenarios, that takes into account the environment and speed. Because when walking at 1hz, updates of GPS are done every 2-3 meters, but at 100km/h, it's every 28m. We don't even have enough info to know how often updates are done, and some tracks are created by people who are in dense skyscraper ville. We simply can't compare the information at the moment
6) By comparing car tracks to google maps, you could even do some basic GPS benchmark type stuff!
Start with a proper testing procedure, create a means of gathering PROPER information, then we can finally start actually testing how reliable people's phones REALLY is! At the moment, we are simply comparing OPINIONS, because there aren't specific tests to follow. There is nothing scientific about this thread until a process to accurately compare results is created.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You raise valid points, but it is unrealistic to expect this kind of controlled testing from an Internet forum.
What I can tell you from personal experience is this: when I run Nexus one with Google Map and SGS with Google Maps at the same time while driving from work to home (or vice versa) the SGS consistently loses lock for about 30% of the route. When I go off the motorway it consistently thinks I am still on the motorway for about 10-20 after I have left it and then needs to reroute. Both the Nexus and SGS are running Android 2.2 and the same version of Google Maps. Nexus One (and an iPhone 4 which I also have) have none of this problems.
The point I tried to make earlier in this thread, admittedly not in the most polite way, is that all the settings discussed here are for AGPS. They only affect the speed of initial lock, not the functioning of the GPS itself. That is why none of the so called "fixes" work for people with non or poor functioning GPS. All that Samsung has done in various ROMs is to tinker with AGPS and also smoothing and predicting of the path while driving; they have not been able to address the underlying issue, which is the inability of the GPS receiver to keep GPS lock.
This can easily be tested by using something like "GPS status" application: it is able to download new GPS assistance data and acquire lock quickly. But if you keep this application running while driving, you will see that the GPS lock is lost many times - at least that is my experience.
darkoroje said:
You raise valid points, but it is unrealistic to expect this kind of controlled testing from an Internet forum.
What I can tell you from personal experience is this: when I run Nexus one with Google Map and SGS with Google Maps at the same time while driving from work to home (or vice versa) the SGS consistently loses lock for about 30% of the route. When I go off the motorway it consistently thinks I am still on the motorway for about 10-20 after I have left it and then needs to reroute. Both the Nexus and SGS are running Android 2.2 and the same version of Google Maps. Nexus One (and an iPhone 4 which I also have) have none of this problems.
The point I tried to make earlier in this thread, admittedly not in the most polite way, is that all the settings discussed here are for AGPS. They only affect the speed of initial lock, not the functioning of the GPS itself. That is why none of the so called "fixes" work for people with non or poor functioning GPS. All that Samsung has done in various ROMs is to tinker with AGPS and also smoothing and predicting of the path while driving; they have not been able to address the underlying issue, which is the inability of the GPS receiver to keep GPS lock.
This can easily be tested by using something like "GPS status" application: it is able to download new GPS assistance data and acquire lock quickly. But if you keep this application running while driving, you will see that the GPS lock is lost many times - at least that is my experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When using TrackerBooster, not only the "first fix" is current, but all of them. I know that aGps just helps get it quicker, but how do you explain gettings track with 5% error rate to under 1% for the same track using the same software?
I don't know how this program works, but it does and, in the end, the goal is to use the GPS to what our needs are (mine is mostly to keep jogging tracks, with speed and accuracy as high as possible)
As I explained before, so far I can conclude that all my issues are fixed using trackerbooster. It seems like not all users have this kind of result and hardware (or built date) might affect some units, but many of us had good results with the addition of a GPS booster (of some sort).
Well here I am near the river Thames near where it becomes tidal - ergo, pretty close to sea level (actually about 30ft above). My new all dancing DHD' GPS system tells me I am 230ft in the air. I honestly do not think I am that high!
It seems to me the DHD contains a blast form HTC's past, the Touch Cruise also added 200ft to the GPS heights. Why have they implemented a GPS hardware issue they have known about for years...is the GPS system hardwired into the snapdragon chip? Is it the kind of thing a software update will eventually correct?
I use OS maps a lot for hiking and tracking, and while I know the height issue is not a big thing as I know the problem, my tracks will always be out by 200 ft vertically.
However, the compass works, unlike on my old HD2...but I really hate little faults like this, they gnaw on me...I really hope none of the GPS system implanted in the noses of bombs and missiles don't have this fault!!!
This may be the app you are using.
I use Compass from Catch.com and find it pretty good.
Also make sure you are receiving signal from at least four satellites to get accurate reading.
my bad
thanks for the advice - MM Tracker is clearly out buy 150-200 feet in altitude...I have the compass as well, it has accuracy +/- but I can't see where it has altitude.
Open Compass app.
Tap 'Menu' button, then Compass Type then GPS
On large Green Bar it reads Speed, Altitude and Accuracy.
Bottom green display shows how many satellites are in use.
thanks, I had not seen that feature, very nifty - when it has stopped raining I will go outside and full complement of satellites and check. Certainly held up against the window, the 200ft discrepancy does still seem to be there using the compass...I will check later – thanks for your thoughts on this.
nope there is a problem
according to the compass I am 316 foot in the air. I beleive where I am is about 25 foot above sealevel - looks to me that HTC has reimplented the same fault they has on the Touch Cruise. No biggy, but it is annoying, a little
If you look through this forum, a few other people seem to have a faulty gps .
My suggestion would be, get in touch with who supplied the phone for an replacement, as a wrong reading on GPS will affect footprints, locations, sat nav etc.
Maybe you do not use these programs much, but with the cost of the phone, everything on it should work, especially the hardware.