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Hi all.
I own a Qtek S100 for around 2 weeks, and have come to love the device for it's all around functionality and small form factor.
As a PDA w/stylus, I have absolutely no complaints. It's a great tool with hundreds of different pieces of software and games to play with.
As many of you, I want to use the Magician as my main phone as well. This is where the problems start. Windows Mobile does not seem be geared towards non-stylus use, yet when you are out and about, it would be nice if you could accomplish basic tasks without the stylus. The main reason being is that when you are out you want to protect the screen so you put the device in a case, so the screen isn't accessible.
Anyway, you guys know all this. Now here's the question. Is there software out there that's designed to make Pocket PC phone edition a better one-handed device? I am thinking of something like the following:
You click one of the hardware buttons, which opens this 'one-handed' program. This brings up a tree/menu of different functions. Anything you would need to do while you're on the road. For example:
Turn the phone to silent.
Turn bluetooth on/off.
Control the music you're playing (on/off/forward/back etc..)
Turn the device off.
Anything you can think of.
I realize you can do some of these things by mapping certain buttons to certain programs or by scrolling on the today screen or by trying to use the start menu, but I'm finding that you can only get so far before you're stuck and you have to use the stylus.
So is there any software of this nature? If not I might sit down and write something myself. If I do it would be cool if everyone can pitch and name things they'd like to do with one hand that they can't seem to accomplish.
Thanks!
What you need as a starter is Burr Oak HotButton Plus. This allows you to assign ONE hardware button that then pops up a list of programs that you can run. The list is configurable of course. You can navigate through the list of programs using your D-pad.
I would suggest getting a list of "Settings" shortcuts (available on the forum). Place these shortcuts in a folder and call them from HotButton Plus.
I also find Microsoft Voice Command a very useful software, especially when I'm driving. You can open programs, play music, etc. using your voice.
Also, this hardware-button tweak might do something nice. Haven't tried myself.
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,40355
I use AEBPlus in combination with Mortbuttons. AEBPlus is bound to a hwardware button, in my case Calendar. When I double press it, Mortbutton 1 pops-up a list of apps that I set in Mortbutton options. In this way, I can switch on/off bluetooth, phone, or launch apps. Mortbutton gives up to 12 apps per list and 5 lists are available. With AEBPlus I can bind 3 Mortbuttons per hard button, e.g. 36 apps per button!
Mortbuttons can be found on www.sto-helit.de
thanks guys. I will give all of these a try!
phoneplus for phone abilities
phonealarms for profiles
All those programs are not directly given what we expected - one handed operation.
jamijam,
Could you develop the program?
Cheers,
jamijam said:
Hi all.
I own a Qtek S100 for around 2 weeks, and have come to love the device for it's all around functionality and small form factor.
As a PDA w/stylus, I have absolutely no complaints. It's a great tool with hundreds of different pieces of software and games to play with.
As many of you, I want to use the Magician as my main phone as well. This is where the problems start. Windows Mobile does not seem be geared towards non-stylus use, yet when you are out and about, it would be nice if you could accomplish basic tasks without the stylus. The main reason being is that when you are out you want to protect the screen so you put the device in a case, so the screen isn't accessible.
Anyway, you guys know all this. Now here's the question. Is there software out there that's designed to make Pocket PC phone edition a better one-handed device? I am thinking of something like the following:
You click one of the hardware buttons, which opens this 'one-handed' program. This brings up a tree/menu of different functions. Anything you would need to do while you're on the road. For example:
Turn the phone to silent.
Turn bluetooth on/off.
Control the music you're playing (on/off/forward/back etc..)
Turn the device off.
Anything you can think of.
I realize you can do some of these things by mapping certain buttons to certain programs or by scrolling on the today screen or by trying to use the start menu, but I'm finding that you can only get so far before you're stuck and you have to use the stylus.
So is there any software of this nature? If not I might sit down and write something myself. If I do it would be cool if everyone can pitch and name things they'd like to do with one hand that they can't seem to accomplish.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HI
I use the O2 xdaI machine. I will get tmobile MDA COMPACT (= I-mate JAM) next week.
Hotbutton application is ok but the best so far for one hand operation is definitely Microsoft Voice Command ver. 1.5. It works increadibly weel on XDAI and I expect it will run even better on the JAM (I will let you know next week).
Cheers !
Heard some things about Micrsofot Voice command but I was finding it hard to believe that using voice could work well in most cases (what if it's noisy? etc...). Maybe I'll give it a try.
o2mn,
Gonna give all these suggestions a try before I think about doing something myself. The goal would be to create a program that lets you go through the menus, etc of ALL programs. Just using the buttons.
I don't know if i need to start a new topic about this but I'm trying to find out an easy way to create a launcher under a hardware button, like a bunch of people seems to wanna have.
In 'windows\appsbuttons' you can assign any hardware button to an *.exe. I want to know if there is an easy way to create a *.exe which
opens a *.link.
Something like:
IE2BUTTON.exe
» goto programfiles
»open IE2BUTTON.lnk
Hereby IE2BUTTON.lnk refers to the map IE2BUTTON where you can put every shortcut you want
Tried AEBPlus but it conflicts with application button mapping such as in TCPMP. Sometimes TCPMP gets the button press sometimes AEBPlus Plus got it - couldn't live with that so had to uninstall AEBPlus.
I use a combination of software:
PPCProfiles-Pro on the Today screen for switching phone on/off, bluetooth on/off etc via switching between profiles I've set up.
VJOKButton assigned to the memo button for closing apps, clicking OK.
MortButton for starting apps etc.
Application button mapping in TCPMP for one handed mp3 / video use.
The one thing I really want to be able to do still is alter the screen brightness one handed.
Hope you don't mind me dumping my list of niggles for the Touch HD, I've been using it now for over a week after forcing myself away from my Blackberry, Axim x50v, Samsung media player and Samsung mobile phone.. I wanted to have something that replaced them all..
Still use the blackberry, but haven't used the axim, samsung or my mobile phone since so far but here are some niggles that have been coming up with:
In no particular order:
- If the keyboard isn't on in the SMS text viewing screen it sometimes wants to keep closing it when you open it..
- Wifi seems to forget your secret passphrase every now and again whilst you are using it.
- freezing especially whilst you are in the sms text screen - it comes unstuck after a few seconds (I know from here I'm not alone!)
- the inclusion of RSS Hub the new name of Newsreader that I used on my Axim, liked the way you could use swipes to the right or left to shift through the news items. Pity you can't click on the download arrows whilst it is updating to get a progress indicator anymore though.
- writing txt's on the move - as there isn't any real tactile response I have to look at the keyboard to text which is bad for me as it takes my concentration of where I'm walking. I'm now waiting until I can stop and just send the message - I think this would be the same as other touch systems too like the iphone.
- holding down the end key even though I've got it configured to do so does not lock the device, it may be because I've got the information screen configured.
- the case provided is a bit awkward when you're listening to music and you put it on and unless you do it holding it up through the front and back you can mistakenly turn down or up the volume or switch the screen on
- if you have a third party calendar/task application that replaces the built in versions that the manilla/touch flo does not respect that it should use those instead without hacks
- Video playback for h.263 files that plays smoothly on my 3 year old Pocket PC 2003SE VGA x50v does not playback smoothly via Coreplayer even if you say show it 100% and tweak. I'm looking forward to the Coreplayers new version when it comes out that should rectify that.
- Because there aren't any hardware buttons it's a bit more awkward to skip ahead in coreplayer..
- Is there a way that would allow me to remotely control the player such as next, previous play and pause as well as take a call from the headphone jack? It looks like the only ones you can get use the USB connector at the bottom..
- new notifications such as texts indicator of how many new messages take a while to dissapear if you view them in the TouchFlo interface, you may have to open up the message for the indicator to clear.
- When browsing via the opera browser, some pages can't be scrolled to the full length of the page - it just doesn't let you unless you zoom right in even though the scroll bars indicate you can.
- Entering text via the keyboards with T9 mode, occasionaly it adds the word you previously typed but may have not pressed space on (even though it shows up on the screen).
Hi all,
I received yesterday my new i8000.
There are 2 features that are seriously missing and I was wondering if anyone knows if they can be restored by a tweak or even an application:
1. the mouse: I hate using the pointing device they give out with the phone, but in some cases, fingers are too big. The mouse they had on the i900 was perfect.
2. Screen rotation/landscape mode: This option also disappeared, comparing to the first Omnia.
I would be happy to hear people's comments.
Thanks.
eh? Screen rotations gone? Are you saying that if you turn the device sideways it won't re-orientate all the screen. This would be a real pain in the a*&e for things like Opera!
Hi dstu69, screen rotation is there but not for all apps. Mine works with Opera. May be try calibrating your device in Settings.
pamburger said:
Hi dstu69, screen rotation is there but not for all apps. Mine works with Opera. May be try calibrating your device in Settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank frak for that!
too many problems
Actually, some automatic rotation is indeed available in some applications, but, for example, I have a GPS application that loads based on the current orientation and it looks bad in portrait mode and there's nothing I can do to fix it.
Also, I'm discovering more problems:
1. When I download emails (IMAP, but I didn't test it in POP3), if i click on them to view them, they are not shown.
2. The excellent mouse we have in the original Omnia disappeared.
3. The flashlight (volume-down long-press) also seems to have disappeared.
This phone is somewhat disappointing. One would think that they'll keep the good stuff and improve the phone. Instead, they took away the things that made the first version so great
Omnia II Missing Features
I just sold my Omnia i900 assuming that the I8000 would build upon its predecessor's strengths? What a shame for Samsung! Here are my findings so far:
Aside of all the issues already mentioned I learned the following:
- Screen reorientation works on some apps but also on e-mail/messaging, provided you select the Samsung keyboard Irgh!!!! Silly as it may sound, that is the case!
- Mouse is history as the CUBE does not have the sensor built in!
- Signatures do NOT work except when creating new mail! Yes, the flag for inserting signatures for replies and forwards was selected!
- There is no way to advance from one e-mail to the next other than going UP to the in box and selecting the next one manually! That IS stupid SAMSUNG. like the previous Omnia, one should be able to flip through e-mail with a gesture as if we were flipping a sheet of paper!
- Fianally a managed to synchronize the sent items folder in outlook! However, you have to unselect the TouchWiz interface, go to the email application and select the options menu. Otherwise it is inaccessible!
- I hope WM6.5 rendition of Samsung takes care of that? Does Anybody know when WM6.5 will be made available?
Cheers
camera LED as torchlight for omnia II - i8000, let's try
http://omnia.chupasweb.net/doku.php?id=omnia2torch
Some of these actually DO work...
MCEITLIN said:
I just sold my Omnia i900 assuming that the I8000 would build upon its predecessor's strengths? What a shame for Samsung! Here are my findings so far:
Aside of all the issues already mentioned I learned the following:
- Screen reorientation works on some apps but also on e-mail/messaging, provided you select the Samsung keyboard Irgh!!!! Silly as it may sound, that is the case!
- Mouse is history as the CUBE does not have the sensor built in!
- Signatures do NOT work except when creating new mail! Yes, the flag for inserting signatures for replies and forwards was selected!
- There is no way to advance from one e-mail to the next other than going UP to the in box and selecting the next one manually! That IS stupid SAMSUNG. like the previous Omnia, one should be able to flip through e-mail with a gesture as if we were flipping a sheet of paper!
- Fianally a managed to synchronize the sent items folder in outlook! However, you have to unselect the TouchWiz interface, go to the email application and select the options menu. Otherwise it is inaccessible!
- I hope WM6.5 rendition of Samsung takes care of that? Does Anybody know when WM6.5 will be made available?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that there are some issues with the Omnia II i8000 but many of the ones you listed work fine...
1. Screen Orientation-Yes it's automatic for Opera and SMS/MMS typing but no others. However, there is a fix where you can assign a button to rotate ANY screen at ANY time. Check it out on here...http://www.modaco.com/category/410/i8000-omnia-ii-http-i8000-modaco-com/
2. I agree about the Mouse and the CUBE not using the sensor.
3. I had NO PROBLEMS with signatures straight out the box.
4. If you start reading your emails from the top of the list, after you DELETE one, it does move to the next one. I agree you have to go back UP in order to read the next one if you don't DELETE the one you were reading.
5. I had NO PROBLEMS syncing SENT mail from Outlook straight out the box.
6. There are several WM6.5 ROMS over on MoDaCo. I've tried a few and each have their own PROS and CONS. Last I heard was Samsung won't have a release until early 2010. By that time, I would have moved on to the HD2 U.S. edition (assuming it's available).
Got my i8000 with original Wimo 6.5 (21856.5.0.65) a few days and i´m happy with it (previous device was nike with manila 2d).
1. there is a tool called OrientationDetection from mcbee to define the apps to autorotate.
2. don´t nedd a mouse or a stylus. fingerfriendly touchwiz let you make all settings with your finger.
4. Perhaps it´s 6.5, but i can flip through sms/email with sliding the finger from right to left.
I would totally agree with positive comments of I8000.
This is my first non-HTC phone in last 5 years (S200-Trinity-TP-T.Cruise) and I must say WOOWWW!!!
Build quality unseen by HTC, hardware (just put SKTools benchmark you'll see some 50% better performance over HD), lightweight.
I must say - I don't like Samsung software - but prefer naked WinMo. But when was re-cooking the problem? At least for this forum members?
So in one word, Samsung made terrific WinMo phone.
Must say that every HTC I owned forced me to certain compromise:
1. Qtek S200 (speaker would die)
2. Trinity (excellent, but paint peels quickly - come on!)
3. TPro (sold it in 3 days, keyboard wobbled, and was not substantially faster than Trinity - which could be overclocked if needed as well as S200)
4. Touch Cruise (thought I could be easy for a while - but speaker is nightmare, lousiest screen of all HTCs I owned (kinda yellowish) - later I found out that HTC changes vendors for certain parts so check your build date before buying). Not to mention Qualcomm drivers issue. Trinity was faster even when playing Scumm games!
I simply cannot understand this phone to have lower price in the shops compared to HD. Faster CPU (with scalable speed), AMOLED, 720x480 video at 30fps, 16GB integrated storage, lighter 20% and roughly 50% faster in all benchmarks. SKTools build I used put it as a fastest PPC device (didn't have HD2), and not just in processor - check out Direct Draw test - second fastest after Dell Axim x51.
Dunno for sure - but that might mean that beside CPU raw-power someone also put some effort in writting proper drivers.(ahemmm!)
I can only say - we my friends have been heavily ripped off during past years for owning WinMo devices. Thank heaven for competitors!
i have my one of my buttons maps to rotate the screen (above camera buttom) and it works quite well most samsung apps that have rotate work without the button but if i want to force it i can using a button so i get the best of both worlds
from modaco
To be able to manually rotate the screen in any application: go to registry hk_local machine – system – gdi – rotation; in key HideOrientationUi change 1 to 0. Then open Settings – Personal – Buttons and assign to any button the command “Rotate Screen” (you can see this option after you change the registry and only in winmo setting page) (working well for me, I prefer to be able to choose when I want to view something in landscape mode than relaying on how I rotate my phone…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dstu69 said:
Hi all,
2. Screen rotation/landscape mode: This option also disappeared, comparing to the first Omnia.
I would be happy to hear people's comments.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Auto rotation can be achieved by using Orientation Detection. You can selectively choose which programs to autorotate.
http://www.modaco.com/content/i8000...orientation-detection-v1-0-autorotation-v1-1/
hkwildboy said:
Auto rotation can be achieved by using Orientation Detection. You can selectively choose which programs to autorotate.
http://www.modaco.com/content/i8000...orientation-detection-v1-0-autorotation-v1-1/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is also a onboard-autorotation. It can be configured in registry
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software\AutoRotation
It is recomended to select allways the next upcoming number in the string
The whole number of strings must be set in the dword "Count"
Smille123 said:
There is also a onboard-autorotation. It can be configured in registry
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software\AutoRotation
It is recomended to select allways the next upcoming number in the string
The whole number of strings must be set in the dword "Count"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've made a little app to manage this registry setting.
junalmeida said:
I've made a little app to manage this registry setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nice to know, wanna share??
I've made a release here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5523515
Cannot install any type of Japanese language packs
If anyone decides to install CE-STAR or any other language enabled softwares, pls dont do it, ur contacts, emails and SMS stuff will disappear!! I tried around 5 different softwares already and really messes up the phone!!!!
I use my HTC Touch for GPS in the car, as well as being my media player, and also (obviously) as a phone.
This usage finds me frequently rotating the screen to the right, and turning on BT when I get in the car. Then when I get out, I have to undo those changes. It's a number of clicks to do this each time, and becoming something of a hassle.
I'm thinking of writing an application to automate the process. I wanted to get some feedback before I start.
1. Is anyone else interested in a project like this? (Note that this is just the beginning, additional functionality could be added, feel free to brainstorm!)
2. Is anyone who is interested in this project willing to beta-test this software?
Thanks for your input!
Shidell
I have a TILT with the 85 degree hardware mod
use it in the car all the time. trouble is that I drive different cars, and do not have a mount. so I usuall have to have it sideways all the time, because of the charger, and rarely able to flip the keboard.
I have an HV switch in Quick menu, but it usually turns the screen the wrong way. also manila keeps making the screen go back to portrait.
I would like to have a quick hardware button to switch, but again, manila gets in the way. do you think you can eliminte that problem?
in other words, yes I am interested if that issue can be solved.
hi, i´m interested too man, but i have a touc cruise, so also i can be a betatester,
and i´m a programmer too. so.---
Totally want this!
You might want to check out G-Profile first, it will do this and more. Profiles can be set based on time, cell id, running programs, or even equipment, such as being connected to power and headset at the same time. You could have G-Profile launch the app you want, set the volume, ringers, screen orientation and brightness, and turn on/off BT and WiFi when connected, then automatically switch it all back when you disconnect. Best part of all though, when profiles are activated, instead of linking to a single app to be executed, you can have it run a mortscript, upon which the possilities are pretty much limitless. You could get in your car, plug in your phone and have the script ask you if you want to listen to music, or navigate, or both. I use this setup with a script that asks me if I want C-apiSRO or Coreplayer when I get in my car when I connect my BT headset.
Oh I kinda forgot the important part, here is the link.
http://www.ageye.de/index.php?s=gprofile/about
Its from the same dev that made G-alarm, which should give you an idea of how nice this app is. Oh and best part is that its free.
I'd love to see a simple application that will do this. I would personally like to see an icon that will rotate the screen 180 and 270 with a simple tap. Bluetooth part would be nice as well (personally wouldn't use it much because i have my bluetooth connected to my headphones or car bt).
+1 on G-Profile. It'll allow you to create profiles that control radios, orientation, and launch programs. Of course, you could also just make use Gyration or some other similar rotation program to allow you screen to rotate via the G-sensor.
Hi Guys - I've got a Mortscript script somewhere that does this, although in my case, it was to flip the display on my Athena 180 degree's, as it was suspended upside down on the car holder I've got. I ran it from the HTC Manila 2d programmes tab.
I'll try and dig it out, but really, it wasn't complexlicated - worth a look certainly.
(Hey Diablo, I played with Ageye's implementation, and found it to be similar to what I'm working on, with more options. This is a fun project though, so I'm going to stick with it if there's interest.)
This is simply a proof of concept to prove it works functionally.
Please note that there is no installer (.cab) package right now, nor any icon, and no application settings. When you launch the application, it will determine your screen's current orientation and flip it, and it will also determine your BT's current setting and flip it. That's all this will do in it's current state.
What I need from you:
What model phone do you have?
Did the functionality work as I described? Any problems?
How would you change/improve this application?
I am considering adding a first-run type setup to determine how you want to run the flip--IE just turn on BT (as a shortcut), etc. Ideas?
Note: As it stands right now, V15 of NFSFAN's ROM using M2D will not "flip" orientation. Titanium is fine, but M2D doesn't like the "flip" and the screen will revert to standard orientation, even though the application runs as normal and will enable/disable BT.
Simply unzip this package and place it on your phone's memory--local, SD card, it doesn't matter. Make sure you include the .exe and the .dll. Then you can run the application by clicking it. Note that you can click and hold on the app. to send a shortcut to "Programs", to make it convenient to launch.
http://www.easy-share.com/1907580543/Vehicle_Flip.zip
Thanks!
Idk if you have found a solution for this yet but all this could be done quite easilly with mortsript. Then all you would have to do is run this when u get in and then run when u get out and it would do everything for you.
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
i don't care what they call it, as long as it's something worth upgrading to. other than my tablets, i have no reason upgrade any other computer i own or use to win8. windows 7 works fine for now.
Nice opinion piece, i couldn't care less what they call it.
As long as they don't A, force us to use metro all of the time or B, put the old start menu back in again ill upgrade to it.
SharpnShiny said:
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think - well, actually hope (so there's personal bias) - that the Windows team will come to its senses. A hybrid OS that runs on desktop/mobile and unifying look and feel was a good idea on paper. The problem was in trying to nudge desktop users to use Metro without touch capability. And that's where they are going to lose a HUGE segment of business.
Business wise most companies think 8 is another Vista and when XP reaches EOS they'll go to 7 and hope for the best with 9 - and it's coming. Historically Windows gets no more than 2 major updates in a life cycle and with 7 only getting one (so far) it's fair to suspect that Blue (8.1) may be it. Try to get more user approval on it and hope for the best with a new version. They could clean up 8, add a true "desktop/touch/hybrid" look/feel and slap a Windows 9 label on it... but here's hoping they'll spend the next 12-14 months really deciding what they want to do forward.
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. I'm a believe of progress, I find win 8 much more efficient as you already mentioned, unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like. Try learn and love... Simple
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
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To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
Windows 9 or 99 - not a whole lot of difference
A side comment to the overarching theme of this thread: Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like. Certainly it has zero bearing on what features will go in.
It's almost certain that at the same time during Windows 8.1 development, the decision hadn't yet been made as to whether call the OS Windows 9, Windows 8.1 or what have you (hence the codename "Windows Blue").
Another good illustration of how naming doesn't mean a whole lot in Microsoft is the evolution from WinNT 6.0 to 6.1. On the client side the move was Vista -> 7 ("major" update), on the server line it was Server 2008 -> Server 2008 R2 ("small" update). But the magnitude of changes was of course very similar between both product lines.
Bottom line: don't get hung up on the naming aspect--it's like reading tea leaves. Look to the core of the product.
Before all the turmoil--reorg, lameduck CEO, Nokia acquisition--I was pretty confident of seeing Win9, as 8.1 was basically a polished 8, and 8 wasn't going anywhere. An 8.2 would only prolong the ignominy.
To have Win9, MS has to have an idea of how to substantively improve on Win8 (that users will buy into.) All present indicators are that that direction doesn't exist. The reorg will paralyze any new initiative, as will Ballmer's lameduck status. And digesting Nokia on top of those...well, turmoil would be putting it kindly.
There should be a new CEO next year (probably Elop, yuck). Lumias will be rebadged, and merged into the Surface effort. But integration and reorg for a company of MS' size will take 2-3 years at least. That almost certainly means we'll see another incremental Win release.
I expect 8.1's reception will be marginally better than 8, mainly because of XP's EOL and replacement purchases for those skipping over 8. The hardware (Haswell, Bay Trail) is better and will also help. But PC's glory days are over, more so because of MS' abandonment and ineptitude than from anything else. Not only on the software side, but hardware as well. OEMs are jumping off the listing ship, even faster now that MS is set to be a full-on competitor.
So how to fix Win 8.x within a year, with no new direction, and a paralyzed company? More TLC to its fast-shrinking cash cow, the desktop, would be a start. As before, I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" that again emphasize on desktop, perhaps with Metro as an optional component. I think a 1-yr allotment for this is doable, even given the dire circumstances. Metro, or Win Mobile (refurb'ed), can be an "essential" add-on, or a separate standalone. The step would be a good holding action.
This would require a revisit of MS' "one-size-fits-all" UI tenet, which isn't succeeding anyway. Metro on its own merits is nothing special, hence its force-feeding to Win users. But neither lame-duck Ballmer nor (likely) Elop has the vision to make a fundamental change. Elop did not turn Nokia around.
We'll see what comes out of the blender next year. For this year, I'll be upgrading to 8.1 and using it strictly as a desktop OS, ie an updated Win7. Metro will be excised, and all my tablet/phone needs will be (have been) met by Android. From what I see of the upcoming Win tabs, they all suck. High prices compared to Android, desktop apps that don't run well on tabs, and paltry selection of mobile apps (that are locked to MS' app store).
Anybody running 8.1 RTM (not RT) yet?
>unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like
Just have to comment on this. Get off the blame game shtick. MS' travails are its own doing, not from any "hater conspiracy" theory. Stop contributing to the childish squabbles.
>I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices.
I can't agree. Metro is still immature, as is MS' notion of mobile devices. Simple case-in-point: 8 does not support portrait use, most apps are landscapes only. 8.1's purported support doesn't compensate for the fact that current and most upcoming tablets will be 16:9. Try using one in portrait and see the awkwardness.
Metro has many other deficits, which I've pointed out before. Landscape orientation (and scrolling) is bad for long lists, among other things, which are best done vertically. Ever wondered why there still isn't a good file manager for Metro? Not to say that Android and iOS are perfect. Both have their foibles. But they're already far ahead in share and 3rd-party support.
>Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like.
What we're talking about isn't the numbering per se, but whether there'll be a substantive change for the next Win rev. The 8.2 vs 9 is a shorthand.
As far as substantive changes go, I can't predict the future, but I can say this. A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered. So it's very possible that an incremental release focusing on making these few problematic areas right could be a major hit.
A common perception is that Windows 8 is somehow so abhorrent that only a total rollback or a total redesign can possibly save the ship. I don't think it's an accurate assessment.
Its not a Blame game, its an observation from dealing with the public, in many cases for no justifiable reason or argument without substance a large portion of the geeky public/profession (note I am one as well) seem hell bent on slagging off anything MS.
It has its faults just as any organization does but some much of the tripe an miss information I have to wade through just to get to the root cause of the problem is staggering!! So no, its not about trying to partake in a childish game, its about trying to stop people being misled by so called experts and to make informed decisions based on fact
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
>A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Win8's issue isn't about bugs, but more fundamental: its design and structure, which were radically changed to fit the one-size-fits-all scheme. Users have not warmed to this direction, and at this point I can't see any change to Metro that can make touch use viable for desktops. While some here may differ on the finer points (or affiliation), it's safe to say that none here has yet to use Metro exclusively as a desktop replacement. It's almost a year since release. There are no more excuses.
>Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered.
What's "bad" or "good" is an opinion. What's not opinion is Win8--ergo, Metro--adoption rate. It's abysmal. One may be an optimist and hope for salvation in 8.1 (or perhaps 8.2). MS certainly doesn't think 8.x will do so great, else it wouldn't have opted for the reorg, Ballmer wouldn't have been kicked out, and Nokia buy wouldn't be a necessity.
Put another way, it's not any one person's opinion that matters, but the collective opinions of Windows users. They've spoken, and I don't see any miracle on the horizon to change their tune.
People need to get the following in their head:
1) Desktop isn't going anywhere, stop dramatizing over the desktop vs metro bullcrap
2) Windows 8 does not force you to use metro, just the start screen, which is miles better than the old start menu.
3) Windows 8 metro works perfectly fine with keyboard and mouse. The R word is pretty much suitable for anyone who can't make the jump from start button to start screen. If you are that R, then you need to quit using a computer, that stuff aint for you.
4)Neither metro, nor the desktop will disappear in any subsequent versions of windows. Stop fearing/hoping.
5) it will probably take around 2 years until the next version of windows (9, momo, kiki whatever) comes along. Windows 8.1 is more like a service pack for windows 8.
garwynn said:
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
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You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper
I am running 8.0 not 8.1. Toolbar is working fine here. I also prefer a clean desktop, always have done, I do have My Computer, recycle bin and my account folder otherwise its empty.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
The search function has actually changed between 8.0 and 8.1. In 8.0 start typing at metro it starts searching your PC by default but segregates results in apps, settings and files. Most desktop applications with a proper installer get listed under apps, a few things like putty or minecraft which dont have proper installers get lumped into files. In 8.1 it goes back to the old windows 7 style search without segregating the results. Both still have individual searches for store, bing etc (actually, here on 8.0 google chrome is listed as a searchable app too which is kinda neat, never noticed that until now). I find it incredibly quick to find things this way, just hit the windows key and type "beam" and its already listed Start BeamNG.Drive and Uninstall BeamNG.Drive as launchable applications, if I was searching for minecraft (pinned to start) I would need an extra click unfortunately but on 8.1 I wouldn't.
My only major metro complaints are lack of apps, lack of serial port access in the WinRT API (whether that be hardware, USB or bluetooth, not that windows distinguishes), blocking of localhost TCP or UDP connections (or any other network connection) and that control panel and file browsing should also be available in metro if metro is to be a viable system. On this machine yeah, perhaps I would rather use control panel in desktop mode, but it should be available on metro too. Lack of apps isn't something microsoft can do much about, that is entirely down to 3rd parties. I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point.
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Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
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Didn't say you meant it to me, just that there are a lot of people who would disagree with your thoughts. Please keep in mind - from a TS perspective we are outliers. From a corporate standpoint they have to look at the lowest common denominator - the users who muddle through using a computer just to get the everyday things done. They don't have a choice but to do that or not work. Not everyone even in Gen Y or the Millennials are tech savvy. (Women are sadly still behind the curve, something I'm going to make sure my kids avoid. Knowledge is power IMO.)
Your second paragraph is mainly targeting, again, a different segment than who I'm talking about. My concern is with the users that have box, wired KB/mouse and one screen and need it as simple as possible to do their job. These folks - some of which I am related to - are quite happy with their 2009 Core 2 Quad PC because it plays video and lets them browse the internet. Even if I build them another PC - and I did on the cheap recently - they have yet to touch it over the old system because they're comfortable with it. Ironic because you solve all their complaints and they still stick with what they know.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
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What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
daniel-s said:
Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
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Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
garwynn said:
What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
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I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
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Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
garwynn said:
Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
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Oh I have no problem using a serial port from windows 8 desktop. Microsoft just don't allow its usage from a windows 8 app.
My desktop PC which isnt even 2 years old does actually have both a full RS232 port and parallel port. I also have an FTDI cable (USB > 3.3v TTL serial) which works fine with my laptop, desktop and the pi itself actually (full FTDI drivers under raspbian and windows 8). Both of my arduinos are arduino nano's so also use an FTDI chip (using the same drivers as each other and the cable I have). One of my other microcontrollers is a bit of a pain but you can get it working with windows 8 too, have to disable driver enforcement before you can install them. Regardless, all 3 microcontrollers and on my desktop its native port are listed in device manager as usable COM ports, all of them work fine too.
One place you will still regularly find a DB9-RS232 port is scientific hardware. Many sensors/probes/data collection devices for use with a PC communicate via serial. Older devices (and a few new ones) from a full RS232 connector, some now use 3.3v or 5v instead and a few are advertised as being USB but in reality have USB>serial adaptors of some sort contained within.
Many android devices have a serial port available (usually 3.3v) via the headphone jack (often just sticking a resistor between mic and ground to trigger left and right audio function changes) or USB port (similar technique as the headphones) or more rarely the microSD
If anyone is interested in the podcast I mentioned, Windows Weekly, the URL is: http://leoville.tv/podcasts/ww.xml
In the lastest episode, Mary Jo Foley of here: http://www.zdnet.com/topic-windows/
tends to tell what's going on inside Microsoft. If you listened to back episodes she was talking about Blue right after 8 was released, she spills details really early and they do come true.
The other major host is Paul Thurott on the podcast, who writes here: http://www.winbeta.org/
The last thing they said, just as e.mote calculated, was that the company is in disaray and will slow down significantly since the Nokia acquisition and that it could have been an 8.2 but for a brand refresh they could skip to 9. 9 in that case would be a mixture of returning some of the key 7 features and polishing 8. I'll post here if there's any more, same if you guys know anything! I'm interested to see how this develops.
I remember going to the Win 7 launch at the time. One of the first things the Micro guy said on stage was that 7 was 'Vista fixed'. I couldn't believe he said that on stage. So instead of a fixer service pack they jumped to 7 and it was partially a brand refresh. Who knows now?