Monitorize mouse global events in WINDOWS-CE; - Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General

Monitorize mouse global events in WINDOWS-CE;
Hello,
I'm working in VISUAL C++ embedded 3.0. with Windows CE. My goal is to monitorize mouse global events.
By the moment I'm working with a WH_JOURNALRECORD global hook that catches all input global events of the
operating system, basically keyboard and mouse events. But when I catch a mouse event, it only gives me
information about the application that receives this event, and the position (x,y) where the user pushes
in the PDA's screen. I want to know, for example, if the user clicks one option in a menu, so what option
the user clicks, or if it clicks a desktop icon, so i want to know icon's name, and so on.
I want to make a program for windows CE mobile devices, like Smartphones and PocketPCs, and the goal of the
program will be monitorize all mouse global events in order to help the user in his navegation in the system. I
want to make a program like "Narrator.exe" of Windows XP, that processes all mouse events and after a speech
voice synthetizer says the option that the user clicks. Is this possible in Windows CE? Microsoft says that NO,
because in windows ce isn't support COM Architecture due to the specific capabilities of the hardware in the
mobile devices because we are speaking of embedded systems.
So, someone can help me, please?
Thank you very much,
SIncerely,
javitobcn

Related

SMS via Personal Computer

Escuse me for my bad english.....
There is a program for Mobile 5 or 6 for sending SMS message via Personal Computer and Hermes via ActiveSync????
Thanx
I know there is an addon for outlook 2007 for sending sms messages but I haven't used it so I'm not sure of any details.
_felix_ said:
Escuse me for my bad english.....
There is a program for Mobile 5 or 6 for sending SMS message via Personal Computer and Hermes via ActiveSync????
Thanx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.callwave.com/landing/widgets.asp
You can use this. I use it through my google homepage.
I think what you need is: http://www.jeyo.com/companion.asp With it you can send normal sms messages from your phone from your desktop while connected through activesync/wmdc
The outlook plug-in mentioned must be from the same company i.e. http://www.jeyo.com/extender.asp
have a look. the apps are not free though
Yeah, what you are looking for is called the Jeyo Mobile extender. I use it, and 't works perfect. Download the trial from the site, and if you like it, buy it. its only 20 USD or so.
that callwave service is AWESOME! i wish there was some way to run it on my tytn though; explorer doesn't load the page... there should be some app that lets you do it!!
_felix_ said:
Escuse me for my bad english.....
There is a program for Mobile 5 or 6 for sending SMS message via Personal Computer and Hermes via ActiveSync????
Thanx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PM me for the jeyo files..
capture ur phone screen to your desktop
what i do is i have a software which let me control my pocket pc on my desktop it opens up the phone screen on my laptop and i can just move around and do anything with it, u can use VNC viewers i use
Remote Display Control (v2.03)
The Remote Display Control application is a way to remote the display and keyboard/mouse/touch screen of a windows CE device (it works on both wm5 and wm6 version of pocket pc also i am using it on hermes) to a desktop. The application itself uses TCP/IP and can work over ActiveSync connections (to the Host Desktop, no routing off of the host), via Ethernet (to any reachable Desktop, does not include any support for proxy servers etc) or dialup.
Remote Display control works on any platform running Windows CE version 2.11 or later.
Three different types of people use this application:
Marketing/Sales: Useful to demonstrate applications on the device, can be used to get the screen display on a large screen (much better then an Elmo in most cases).
PM/Devs: Useful to get screen shots of applications or for developers that are happy not switching keyboards/displays too often when doing UI tweaking or bug fixing.
BSP Developers: BSP's (Board Support Packages) are the low-level software written to allow Windows CE to work on a device. This includes the OAL (OEM Adaptation Layer) and drivers for the hardware device. The client will function as a display driver so that people who either don't have the hardware or haven't written the driver yet can use this in place of the real display/keyboard/mouse driver, with remote connect it could be installed into headless devices as an alternate way to manage them.
Installation directions:
Connect device to desktop via ActiveSync 3.1 or higher.
Run RemoteDSP.exe from the desktop.
Features:
Desktop - You can click and type as if you were on the device.
Desktop - You can Zoom by 1, 2 or 3 times.
Desktop/Device - For devices that support cursors you can use tools\Send all mouse move and you'll have the amazing remote dancing cursor. Don't bother doing this for non-cursor devices, you'll just make everything slower.
Device - After configuring correctly with hostname and refresh time it you can run "cerdisp -c" either via Start/Run or on PocketPC create a .lnk file that has "19#\windows\cerdisp -c" in it (no quotes). It will run and connect automatically.
Device - Supports 2 bit, 4bit, 8 bit and 16 bit displays
Device - Run's as a Dialog with a ShellNotifyIcon (i.e. icon in the tray).
Running Remote Display Control:
Via Active Sync connection -
1. Ensure that the device is connected the the desktop using Active Sync 3.1 or higher.
2. Launch desktop host by clicking Start -> Programs -> Remote Display Control - Remote Display Control Host.
3. On the device, tap on Start -> Programs -> cerdisp.
4. Tap OK -> Connect
5. Leave Hostname as PPP_PEER and tap OK
Via Ethernet -
1. Ensure that the host PC has an installation of the Remote Display Control host.
2. Launch desktop host by clicking Start -> Programs -> Remote Display Control - Remote Display Control Host.
3. On the device, tap on Start -> Programs -> cerdisp.
4. Tap OK -> Connect
5. Enter the machine name of the host PC as it appears on the network in the Hostname box and tap OK.
NOTES:
The desktop version number must match the client version number.
Cursor based devices will have the cursor may blink at every screen capture.
REDISTRIBUTION :
This application is subject to the End User License Agreement at http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/downloads/powertoys.asp
No support is provided.
Not for redistribution.
Remote Display Control (v2.03)
The Remote Display Control (v2.03) application work's great!
In my opinion better than Jeyo for Outlook, although a great idea, didn't work for me entirely. I wanted to keep all sent items on my device and more often than not, it wouldn't connect, even though ActiveSync had. I was using Outlook 2003 + ActiveSync 4.5. Don't worry, I'm not looking to solve this problem. I gave up after experiencing this several times.
Cheers naufil, pointing me in the right direction.
chamelion said:
that callwave service is AWESOME! i wish there was some way to run it on my tytn though; explorer doesn't load the page... there should be some app that lets you do it!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah, callwave is pretty cool. I jumped the gun and signed up for their free voicemail service. I cancelled it like 20 minutes after that. It brings your voicemail's to your desktop(i use a mac and adds them on a widget). But it replaces your providers voicemail so you get voicemail notifications through a text (not the voicemail symbol) and have to call their voicemail number to retrieve from your phone... valiant effort but didn't want to give up my voicemail notification... or something like that.
It would be cool if a operator would adopt their system.
naufil said:
what i do is i have a software which let me control my pocket pc on my desktop it opens up the phone screen on my laptop and i can just move around and do anything with it, u can use VNC viewers i use
Remote Display Control (v2.03)
The Remote Display Control application is a way to remote the display and keyboard/mouse/touch screen of a windows CE device (it works on both wm5 and wm6 version of pocket pc also i am using it on hermes) to a desktop. The application itself uses TCP/IP and can work over ActiveSync connections (to the Host Desktop, no routing off of the host), via Ethernet (to any reachable Desktop, does not include any support for proxy servers etc) or dialup.
Remote Display control works on any platform running Windows CE version 2.11 or later.
Three different types of people use this application:
Marketing/Sales: Useful to demonstrate applications on the device, can be used to get the screen display on a large screen (much better then an Elmo in most cases).
PM/Devs: Useful to get screen shots of applications or for developers that are happy not switching keyboards/displays too often when doing UI tweaking or bug fixing.
BSP Developers: BSP's (Board Support Packages) are the low-level software written to allow Windows CE to work on a device. This includes the OAL (OEM Adaptation Layer) and drivers for the hardware device. The client will function as a display driver so that people who either don't have the hardware or haven't written the driver yet can use this in place of the real display/keyboard/mouse driver, with remote connect it could be installed into headless devices as an alternate way to manage them.
Installation directions:
Connect device to desktop via ActiveSync 3.1 or higher.
Run RemoteDSP.exe from the desktop.
Features:
Desktop - You can click and type as if you were on the device.
Desktop - You can Zoom by 1, 2 or 3 times.
Desktop/Device - For devices that support cursors you can use tools\Send all mouse move and you'll have the amazing remote dancing cursor. Don't bother doing this for non-cursor devices, you'll just make everything slower.
Device - After configuring correctly with hostname and refresh time it you can run "cerdisp -c" either via Start/Run or on PocketPC create a .lnk file that has "19#\windows\cerdisp -c" in it (no quotes). It will run and connect automatically.
Device - Supports 2 bit, 4bit, 8 bit and 16 bit displays
Device - Run's as a Dialog with a ShellNotifyIcon (i.e. icon in the tray).
Running Remote Display Control:
Via Active Sync connection -
1. Ensure that the device is connected the the desktop using Active Sync 3.1 or higher.
2. Launch desktop host by clicking Start -> Programs -> Remote Display Control - Remote Display Control Host.
3. On the device, tap on Start -> Programs -> cerdisp.
4. Tap OK -> Connect
5. Leave Hostname as PPP_PEER and tap OK
Via Ethernet -
1. Ensure that the host PC has an installation of the Remote Display Control host.
2. Launch desktop host by clicking Start -> Programs -> Remote Display Control - Remote Display Control Host.
3. On the device, tap on Start -> Programs -> cerdisp.
4. Tap OK -> Connect
5. Enter the machine name of the host PC as it appears on the network in the Hostname box and tap OK.
NOTES:
The desktop version number must match the client version number.
Cursor based devices will have the cursor may blink at every screen capture.
REDISTRIBUTION :
This application is subject to the End User License Agreement at http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/downloads/powertoys.asp
No support is provided.
Not for redistribution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is that "cerdisp" thing? I keep on trying to activate this on my desktop but it doesnt do anything. Plus I cant find the cerdisp. I have a Rhod400.
ianshmian said:
Where is that "cerdisp" thing? I keep on trying to activate this on my desktop but it doesnt do anything. Plus I cant find the cerdisp. I have a Rhod400.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you must install on phone memory to get it work

New version V7 of C# IDE Mobile

New version V7 of C# IDE Mobile
C# IDE Mobile is an application (totally free) that I've developed to be able to develop with C#/.NET2CF directly on the Pocket PC-Windows Mobile 5/6 (it doesn't require the .NET SDK, you don't need a desktop computer).
You can download the new version at:
http://www.geocities.com/hrowson/wm5_software/index.htm
or from my personal page:
http://www.geocities.com/hrowson/index.htm
This new version mainly adds the following improvements:
- Added "light" support for user plugins (allowing users to create plugins to facilitate/automate development in conjunction of copy/paste)
- Resolved major (but rare) issue with scope management
- Floats are now parsed culture independent
- Reworked undo/cut/copy/paste to use WM clipboard (Paste no longer moves the scroll/caret and copy/paste works with other apps)
- Fixed negative number declarations (like "int i=-1;", "if(i<-5)", …)
- Fixed support for escape characters ('\n', '\r', '\r\r', '\t')
- Fixed support for char types and array initialisation
Harvey
Anyone tried?
Has anyone had a try ?
Harvey
nope. do you need to write code using a mobile?
Hum...
I guess that's a legitimate question... It depends on a few things. It happens that I'm often in a situation when using my laptop isn't convenient (or bringing it with me wasn't), like on the train, in cafes, in waiting rooms, on customer sites, on vacation, sometimes at home or at work, ...
I just like to think of my PPC as a fully capable computer (I do much of my writting on it to, not to mention emails, MSN, ...), so as a developer I want t be able to develop on it (even if my IDE clearly has limitations for now).
In the end I always take the code back to my desktop machine and compile it to native PPC, but it has often been written directly on the PPC (I have a TyTN with keyboard, making this quite productive).
Harvey.

Remote Control/Assistance for small businesses.

Yesterday I started using SOTI Pocket Controller 6.01 Pro in my office...
I'm also using TeamViewer there.. (Teamviewer is a remote control for Desktops.. which doesn't belong here. it's the best program i've used for remote assistance. if anyone's interested in information about it you can PM me).
since lately we've put our business into PPC's in an extremely confident manner.. (that is.. just switching without asking the employees).. we had to make sure they would get all the help they need if they run into problems.
just thought i'd quickreview for anyone who's into a small business around here...
SOTI Pocket Controller 6.01
Real-Time Remote Control
Now optimized for even faster performance across all networks!
Control your mobile device from your desktop PC using your keyboard and mouse
Connect through your ActiveSync or wired/wireless TCP/IP
Use the New simplified Office 2007 Ribbon User Interface
Enhanced Record, playback and looping macro functionality allows you to automate tasks
Execute DOS commands via the Remote DOS Box
New Advanced Security:
Connection Authentication / Notification, ensures that only you or your authorized party can access your device remotely
Remote Device Wipe: Remove sensitive information from your device if it is lost or stolen
Presentation Tools
Create professional presentations by displaying your mobile device in real-time on a projection system via your desktop/laptop
Use the various presentations modes (e.g. Skinned Device Mode, Window Mode, and the New Skin in Window Mode) to maximize the effectiveness of your presentation
Display your mobile device against a solid color background or use your own custom webpage background
Choose skins for your mobile devices from SOTI's Enhanced Skin Catalog which contains skins for virtually every mobile device on the market
Use web-conferencing software to do remote training/presentations of mobile software or hardware
Training Tools
Use Pocket Controller and project your desktop computer screen to train mobile device users
Use Pocket Controller along with web-conferencing to deliver training sessions to remote mobile users
Use the Enhanced Drawing tool to bring attention to a specific spot on your device screen or to illustrate a specific concept
Use the rich set of tools (e.g. File Explorer, Registry Editor, Task Manager etc.) to deliver technical training sessions
File Synchronization
Automatically or manually synchronize your data files (e.g. pictures, video files, documents, etc.) between your PC and mobile device
Configure convenient synchronization rules that suit your work and document management needs, to keep you up-to-date at all times
Manually or automatically synchronize your PC and mobile device clipboards
Explore Tool
Transfer Files using Pocket Controller-Pro's Explore Tool
Browse the file system of your mobile device as well as the file system of your desktop computer
Perform standard file management operations, such as: transfer files between your desktop computer and your mobile device, delete files, rename files, create folders and set file attributes
Search for files or folders on your mobile device
View and set read/write attributes for files and folders on your mobile device
Drag and drop files between your desktop computer and your mobile device
New! Registry Editor
Do more than you ever thought possible with this new Registry Editor!
Now have even more control over your mobile device:
View and change settings in your devices system registry
Import and export registry keys
Task Manager
View detailed information about all running applications and processes, such as DLLs loaded, threads loaded, etc.
Stop, or 'kill', an application or process on your mobile device that may be causing your device to misbehave
System Information
View and monitor vital system information, such as:
Battery Level
Memory Utilization
Operating System and Processor Information
Screen / Video Capture
Use the Enhanced screen and video capture tools
to record to a variety of image and video formats!
Capture screens to compressed GIF, BMP, JPG and PNG file formats, screen can also be copied to the windows clipboard for easy integration with third party applications
Supports Window Media Video (WMV) and Audio Video Interleave (AVI) output formats, which offer better compression and quality than regular formats (codecs).
Printing
Enhanced printing capabilities now allow more flexibility
when printing in the various display modes
Create professional training materials by printing out mobile device screen shots
Print in portrait or landscape mode and at one of eight zoom levels
Print screen images with or without skins.
___________________________________________________
Now.. i'm aware i might repeat some of the things written above.. but i found it to be amazingly useful so i dont' care
due to the fact that you can use wifi... and considering that 99% of the PPC's nowadays have a WiFi connection.. you can connect to any of the PPC's in your office and solve problems. we have 18 computers and 12 PPC's in our office and i realized that by using an instant messenger or outlook we can receive requests for fixing PPC problems and use the office's access points to connect, just as teamviewer does with the desktops, to the PPC's. We're avoiding ANY wired connection of the PPC's with the desktops as all PPC's are synced by bluetooth... so everything is pretty much as simple as it can get.
there is another program called MyMobile which a freeware.. while SOTI's software costs 35.95$.. but i found SOTI's Pocket Controller to be much more professional. We are also recording every movement while fixing a problem and are making an archive so that if we run into problems which we can't recall we can just check the archive to see if there's a solution for it.
Official Website Link:
http://www.soti.net/
Hope you find it useful.

Multipurpose Navi-Loader v1.2

just thought i'd share this with you.. been using it and it's really good.
On WinCE platform, there is no taskbar like WM5/6 platform, that's why most of WinCE full
screen applications always partial behind on WM5/6 taskbar at upper of screen, even shift
down one line on WM5/6 platform. Also, even WinCE application had controlled backlight
strength in program, but it won't work on WM5/6 platform. That's a story to be born this
utility.
This NavLoader utility provides environment pre-setup before loading Navigator application,
individual configuration file for your perference to load specific Navigator application.
The features also include WinCE full screen emulation and turn on bluetooth..etc by variety
parameters in configuration file.
From now on, you can set up difference preference for your Navigator application, such Garmin
run on portrait mode and power off PPC when exit Garmin, TomTom run on landscape mode and redirect
all audio to bluetooth earphone, you don't need to setup environment manually before you launch
application.
This utility has been tested on WM5 platform with TomTom 6(PDA), Garmin(PDA), MioMap(PDA),
Finean V2.0(PND), PPG VR-ONE(WinCE PND), If you are interested this utility, you may report your
test result of which applications or bugs for next version information collection.
DOWNLOAD LINK: (this IS freeware)
http://rapidshare.com/files/117823058/MulPurNavLoa11Fre.rar.html
knock yourself out

Windows Updates: 8.1, Update 1, Threshold, Windows 9

Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
i don't care what they call it, as long as it's something worth upgrading to. other than my tablets, i have no reason upgrade any other computer i own or use to win8. windows 7 works fine for now.
Nice opinion piece, i couldn't care less what they call it.
As long as they don't A, force us to use metro all of the time or B, put the old start menu back in again ill upgrade to it.
SharpnShiny said:
Hi guys. For anyone else interested in this, some of you may also listen to podcasts like Windows Weekly or read articles from top Windows writers like Mary Jo Foley of ZDnet, Paul Thurott etc. Last I heard them say that it's 50/50, Micro employees are saying there isn't definitely an 8.2 (remember at this point Blue was in full dev last year), they could either skip to Windows 9, particularly as a branding refresh a la Vista.
What do you think? Will they? Do you want them to?
I do. I really think desktop users got shafted and I can't believe how many third party modifications it takes for me to get comfortable with Win 8. Reading the 'making win 8' blog I was excited. From the preview I was shocked so much was unfinished and gambled, unlike the Win 7 preview. The Xbox 180 rollback (and the firing of the Windows, Xbox chiefs and investor kick-out of the CEO) to me highlights a recognition of failure from a business point.
Edit - I'm going to upgrade my statement and say the world's largest PC manufacturer dissing the start screen and adding a third party menu - Pokki - is a result of feedback from customers and that I find it hard to believe how Microsoft couldn't add a full menu back in 9 at least alongside a start screen.
http://blog.pokki.com/2013/08/lenovo-pcs-now-come-with-pokki/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think - well, actually hope (so there's personal bias) - that the Windows team will come to its senses. A hybrid OS that runs on desktop/mobile and unifying look and feel was a good idea on paper. The problem was in trying to nudge desktop users to use Metro without touch capability. And that's where they are going to lose a HUGE segment of business.
Business wise most companies think 8 is another Vista and when XP reaches EOS they'll go to 7 and hope for the best with 9 - and it's coming. Historically Windows gets no more than 2 major updates in a life cycle and with 7 only getting one (so far) it's fair to suspect that Blue (8.1) may be it. Try to get more user approval on it and hope for the best with a new version. They could clean up 8, add a true "desktop/touch/hybrid" look/feel and slap a Windows 9 label on it... but here's hoping they'll spend the next 12-14 months really deciding what they want to do forward.
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. I'm a believe of progress, I find win 8 much more efficient as you already mentioned, unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like. Try learn and love... Simple
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I really don't see the fuss over lack of a start button. What do people seriously use it for? Launching applications, shutting down the PC and accessing control panel (and related).
Launching apps can be done from desktop icons, modern ui tiles or simply go to modern ui and if the software didnt have a piece of crap installer when you start to type its name (dont even have to click a box or anything) it will list it. <- because that was so hard.
Shutting down PC, control-alt-delete or alt-f4 on the desktop or windows key + I to open the settings charm where you can click power > shutdown or here is a revolotionary idea for those with laptops or desktops within reach: press the power button and windows will prompt for shut down.
Control panel. Either try the launching apps thing above. Alternately, move the mouse to the bottom left corner so the little "start" thing appears, right click it, its right there.
I for one find windows 8 *easier* with keyboard and mouse than 7 was. I don't have a problem using modern ui apps with keyboard and mouse either. I have a word for those people who cannot work out how an app works on keyboard and mouse, its 6 letters long, starts with an R and has political incorrectness written all over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
Windows 9 or 99 - not a whole lot of difference
A side comment to the overarching theme of this thread: Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like. Certainly it has zero bearing on what features will go in.
It's almost certain that at the same time during Windows 8.1 development, the decision hadn't yet been made as to whether call the OS Windows 9, Windows 8.1 or what have you (hence the codename "Windows Blue").
Another good illustration of how naming doesn't mean a whole lot in Microsoft is the evolution from WinNT 6.0 to 6.1. On the client side the move was Vista -> 7 ("major" update), on the server line it was Server 2008 -> Server 2008 R2 ("small" update). But the magnitude of changes was of course very similar between both product lines.
Bottom line: don't get hung up on the naming aspect--it's like reading tea leaves. Look to the core of the product.
Before all the turmoil--reorg, lameduck CEO, Nokia acquisition--I was pretty confident of seeing Win9, as 8.1 was basically a polished 8, and 8 wasn't going anywhere. An 8.2 would only prolong the ignominy.
To have Win9, MS has to have an idea of how to substantively improve on Win8 (that users will buy into.) All present indicators are that that direction doesn't exist. The reorg will paralyze any new initiative, as will Ballmer's lameduck status. And digesting Nokia on top of those...well, turmoil would be putting it kindly.
There should be a new CEO next year (probably Elop, yuck). Lumias will be rebadged, and merged into the Surface effort. But integration and reorg for a company of MS' size will take 2-3 years at least. That almost certainly means we'll see another incremental Win release.
I expect 8.1's reception will be marginally better than 8, mainly because of XP's EOL and replacement purchases for those skipping over 8. The hardware (Haswell, Bay Trail) is better and will also help. But PC's glory days are over, more so because of MS' abandonment and ineptitude than from anything else. Not only on the software side, but hardware as well. OEMs are jumping off the listing ship, even faster now that MS is set to be a full-on competitor.
So how to fix Win 8.x within a year, with no new direction, and a paralyzed company? More TLC to its fast-shrinking cash cow, the desktop, would be a start. As before, I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" that again emphasize on desktop, perhaps with Metro as an optional component. I think a 1-yr allotment for this is doable, even given the dire circumstances. Metro, or Win Mobile (refurb'ed), can be an "essential" add-on, or a separate standalone. The step would be a good holding action.
This would require a revisit of MS' "one-size-fits-all" UI tenet, which isn't succeeding anyway. Metro on its own merits is nothing special, hence its force-feeding to Win users. But neither lame-duck Ballmer nor (likely) Elop has the vision to make a fundamental change. Elop did not turn Nokia around.
We'll see what comes out of the blender next year. For this year, I'll be upgrading to 8.1 and using it strictly as a desktop OS, ie an updated Win7. Metro will be excised, and all my tablet/phone needs will be (have been) met by Android. From what I see of the upcoming Win tabs, they all suck. High prices compared to Android, desktop apps that don't run well on tabs, and paltry selection of mobile apps (that are locked to MS' app store).
Anybody running 8.1 RTM (not RT) yet?
>unfortunately the great anti MS movement has done well in telling people what they should and should not like
Just have to comment on this. Get off the blame game shtick. MS' travails are its own doing, not from any "hater conspiracy" theory. Stop contributing to the childish squabbles.
>I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices.
I can't agree. Metro is still immature, as is MS' notion of mobile devices. Simple case-in-point: 8 does not support portrait use, most apps are landscapes only. 8.1's purported support doesn't compensate for the fact that current and most upcoming tablets will be 16:9. Try using one in portrait and see the awkwardness.
Metro has many other deficits, which I've pointed out before. Landscape orientation (and scrolling) is bad for long lists, among other things, which are best done vertically. Ever wondered why there still isn't a good file manager for Metro? Not to say that Android and iOS are perfect. Both have their foibles. But they're already far ahead in share and 3rd-party support.
>Windows 8.2 vs Windows 9 is purely a naming decision that has very little to do with what the actual product will look like.
What we're talking about isn't the numbering per se, but whether there'll be a substantive change for the next Win rev. The 8.2 vs 9 is a shorthand.
As far as substantive changes go, I can't predict the future, but I can say this. A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered. So it's very possible that an incremental release focusing on making these few problematic areas right could be a major hit.
A common perception is that Windows 8 is somehow so abhorrent that only a total rollback or a total redesign can possibly save the ship. I don't think it's an accurate assessment.
Its not a Blame game, its an observation from dealing with the public, in many cases for no justifiable reason or argument without substance a large portion of the geeky public/profession (note I am one as well) seem hell bent on slagging off anything MS.
It has its faults just as any organization does but some much of the tripe an miss information I have to wade through just to get to the root cause of the problem is staggering!! So no, its not about trying to partake in a childish game, its about trying to stop people being misled by so called experts and to make informed decisions based on fact
Sent from my Rooted Kobo Arc
>A few bugs can make a program completely unusable, but it doesn't mean that the program is necessarily total crap in its entirety.
Win8's issue isn't about bugs, but more fundamental: its design and structure, which were radically changed to fit the one-size-fits-all scheme. Users have not warmed to this direction, and at this point I can't see any change to Metro that can make touch use viable for desktops. While some here may differ on the finer points (or affiliation), it's safe to say that none here has yet to use Metro exclusively as a desktop replacement. It's almost a year since release. There are no more excuses.
>Windows 8 isn't all bad. It has a few features which some users really don't like, but most of the new features aren't bad. They're good features solidly engineered.
What's "bad" or "good" is an opinion. What's not opinion is Win8--ergo, Metro--adoption rate. It's abysmal. One may be an optimist and hope for salvation in 8.1 (or perhaps 8.2). MS certainly doesn't think 8.x will do so great, else it wouldn't have opted for the reorg, Ballmer wouldn't have been kicked out, and Nokia buy wouldn't be a necessity.
Put another way, it's not any one person's opinion that matters, but the collective opinions of Windows users. They've spoken, and I don't see any miracle on the horizon to change their tune.
People need to get the following in their head:
1) Desktop isn't going anywhere, stop dramatizing over the desktop vs metro bullcrap
2) Windows 8 does not force you to use metro, just the start screen, which is miles better than the old start menu.
3) Windows 8 metro works perfectly fine with keyboard and mouse. The R word is pretty much suitable for anyone who can't make the jump from start button to start screen. If you are that R, then you need to quit using a computer, that stuff aint for you.
4)Neither metro, nor the desktop will disappear in any subsequent versions of windows. Stop fearing/hoping.
5) it will probably take around 2 years until the next version of windows (9, momo, kiki whatever) comes along. Windows 8.1 is more like a service pack for windows 8.
garwynn said:
To call me or anyone else that 6 letter word is clairvoyant of your personality. 18 years of using a start button doesn't go away quickly. Asking paradigms to change that fast is dang near impossible for most businesses. There should be at least a slight understanding of that.
In all fairness most of the big and powerful things you needed can be found in 8.1 preview by right clicking the Windows icon on the bottom right and does far more than I'll need. And with all due respect to your opinion, I have about 30+ different applications on my work PC that I use on a constant basis. Top 5 are in the toolbar (also having a challenge duplicating this in 8.1 preview - maybe someone can shed some light for me?) to avoid hitting that button. Rest of them are easily found because I set up my Start Menu to be as efficient as I need it to be. I'm trying to find a way to match that without having to go into Metro because honestly that takes more time. And please don't patronize me about going back to icons on the desktop - that's regressive to 3.1 and NOT progressive. Your power suggestions have also been around since at least XP so no new news there. I didn't know about being able to search for your apps within Metro and I will give that a shot and see if I reconsider. Moving the scroll bar on the bottom of metro to scroll to apps is VERY different than the touch response.
Notice I didn't trash the Metro UI concept, I think it's dead on for touch devices. I just think they can and should improve on the non-touch side where honestly most folks (and companies) do not need/want it... yet. Just like not every company embraces 64 bit OSes yet because they have yet to exceed the 4GB limitation. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts and those that I've heard at corporate levels so far. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to use the same OS at home and work. Many of us will always be behind the times in technology at the office - even if we work in IT.
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You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper
I am running 8.0 not 8.1. Toolbar is working fine here. I also prefer a clean desktop, always have done, I do have My Computer, recycle bin and my account folder otherwise its empty.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
The search function has actually changed between 8.0 and 8.1. In 8.0 start typing at metro it starts searching your PC by default but segregates results in apps, settings and files. Most desktop applications with a proper installer get listed under apps, a few things like putty or minecraft which dont have proper installers get lumped into files. In 8.1 it goes back to the old windows 7 style search without segregating the results. Both still have individual searches for store, bing etc (actually, here on 8.0 google chrome is listed as a searchable app too which is kinda neat, never noticed that until now). I find it incredibly quick to find things this way, just hit the windows key and type "beam" and its already listed Start BeamNG.Drive and Uninstall BeamNG.Drive as launchable applications, if I was searching for minecraft (pinned to start) I would need an extra click unfortunately but on 8.1 I wouldn't.
My only major metro complaints are lack of apps, lack of serial port access in the WinRT API (whether that be hardware, USB or bluetooth, not that windows distinguishes), blocking of localhost TCP or UDP connections (or any other network connection) and that control panel and file browsing should also be available in metro if metro is to be a viable system. On this machine yeah, perhaps I would rather use control panel in desktop mode, but it should be available on metro too. Lack of apps isn't something microsoft can do much about, that is entirely down to 3rd parties. I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point.
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Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
You don't know me nor my personality. I think my choice of word is justified, nor did I call you it. I have not used the start button for 18 years, only about 10, but 10 years of start button usage I was able to throw away like an empty chocolate bar wrapper.
You dont have to move the bar along the bottom of the start bar. On a multitouch trackpad (as on most windows 8 laptops and a few 7 laptops too, or a USB one) a 2 finger horizontal swipe, alternately it will respond to the scroll wheel on your mouse (or the scroll region on non multitouch trackpads or a 2 finger vertical swipe) and a 3rd option is to simply move your mouse against the edge and as you try to move the mouse further it scrolls in that direction. This works in apps too (although a few apps don't respond to moving the mouse against the edge in my experience, most do though).
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Didn't say you meant it to me, just that there are a lot of people who would disagree with your thoughts. Please keep in mind - from a TS perspective we are outliers. From a corporate standpoint they have to look at the lowest common denominator - the users who muddle through using a computer just to get the everyday things done. They don't have a choice but to do that or not work. Not everyone even in Gen Y or the Millennials are tech savvy. (Women are sadly still behind the curve, something I'm going to make sure my kids avoid. Knowledge is power IMO.)
Your second paragraph is mainly targeting, again, a different segment than who I'm talking about. My concern is with the users that have box, wired KB/mouse and one screen and need it as simple as possible to do their job. These folks - some of which I am related to - are quite happy with their 2009 Core 2 Quad PC because it plays video and lets them browse the internet. Even if I build them another PC - and I did on the cheap recently - they have yet to touch it over the old system because they're comfortable with it. Ironic because you solve all their complaints and they still stick with what they know.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I went to make an app but sadly microsoft say no serial ports and my application required it, I had a workaround which was to make the app communicate with a desktop application over a network and have the desktop application use a serial port, but thats both a) awkward and b) limiting as localhost is no longer possible so the desktop app would need to run on a second device which kinda defeats the point. I think 8.1 adds bluetooth RfComm support, it is possible to build up bluetooth SPP support in user code atop RfComm so at least 8.1 would allow bluetooth serial to an extent.
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What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
daniel-s said:
Have you tried marshaling your data through the file system? Apps could communicate through metro app's local storage. It's hacky and it may require fiddling with permissions, but it could work depending on your latency requirements.
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Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
garwynn said:
What were you trying to use via serial? USB storage access? If so I think they're trying to pigeonhole it to the sever (SkyDrive) as that seems to be the way that it goes. All the reason why I keep very few apps with data on my Note 2 - and those that I do keep data locally.
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I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Hacky indeed, but then so was my first thought. Latency is an issue, but file systems might *just* do it actually. Would have to think about that a bit more.
I've not heard of USB storage being done through an old fashioned serial/COM port which is what I wanted to use. Some people do still use their old RS232 ports or similar. In my case, I was initially aiming to have a serial terminal which could be attached to a raspberry pi, I was also planning a remote control type app aim at robots powered by arduinos and other microcontrollers. Communication from PC to microcontroller is almost always serial, even the arduino boards which supposedly have a USB port on them then have a USB>Serial adaptor before communication with a microcontroller (FTDI on the nano, an ATMega8U on the uno which is then programmed to bit-bang USB before comms with the ATMega328 powering the uno itself and a few others on 3rd party boards such as the CP2100 series IC's, a few boards don't have USB ports at all and require an external serial adaptor).
Linux can commonly be setup to display the shell over a serial port, the raspberry pi does this by default, by addition of a serial cable between the pi GPIO and another PC (with appropriate adaptors for the 3.3v TTL on the pi and whatever is on the host PC) you can run software such as PuTTY as an alternative to SSH. This is commonly done on servers connected to the internet which may have SSH disabled for security reasons as an attacker would be required to have physical access to the machines.
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Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
garwynn said:
Old AS/400 systems used a serial connection to get to the system controller and the fix was to use the USB to serial dongle. Made for a pain in the butt because very few devices keep a 9 pin serial port on them anymore. (Drivers were a pain to find though). Probably the only way you'll be able to pull that off going further - it seems very (VERY) few boards have the 9 pin serial anymore, even on docking stations.
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Click to collapse
Oh I have no problem using a serial port from windows 8 desktop. Microsoft just don't allow its usage from a windows 8 app.
My desktop PC which isnt even 2 years old does actually have both a full RS232 port and parallel port. I also have an FTDI cable (USB > 3.3v TTL serial) which works fine with my laptop, desktop and the pi itself actually (full FTDI drivers under raspbian and windows 8). Both of my arduinos are arduino nano's so also use an FTDI chip (using the same drivers as each other and the cable I have). One of my other microcontrollers is a bit of a pain but you can get it working with windows 8 too, have to disable driver enforcement before you can install them. Regardless, all 3 microcontrollers and on my desktop its native port are listed in device manager as usable COM ports, all of them work fine too.
One place you will still regularly find a DB9-RS232 port is scientific hardware. Many sensors/probes/data collection devices for use with a PC communicate via serial. Older devices (and a few new ones) from a full RS232 connector, some now use 3.3v or 5v instead and a few are advertised as being USB but in reality have USB>serial adaptors of some sort contained within.
Many android devices have a serial port available (usually 3.3v) via the headphone jack (often just sticking a resistor between mic and ground to trigger left and right audio function changes) or USB port (similar technique as the headphones) or more rarely the microSD
If anyone is interested in the podcast I mentioned, Windows Weekly, the URL is: http://leoville.tv/podcasts/ww.xml
In the lastest episode, Mary Jo Foley of here: http://www.zdnet.com/topic-windows/
tends to tell what's going on inside Microsoft. If you listened to back episodes she was talking about Blue right after 8 was released, she spills details really early and they do come true.
The other major host is Paul Thurott on the podcast, who writes here: http://www.winbeta.org/
The last thing they said, just as e.mote calculated, was that the company is in disaray and will slow down significantly since the Nokia acquisition and that it could have been an 8.2 but for a brand refresh they could skip to 9. 9 in that case would be a mixture of returning some of the key 7 features and polishing 8. I'll post here if there's any more, same if you guys know anything! I'm interested to see how this develops.
I remember going to the Win 7 launch at the time. One of the first things the Micro guy said on stage was that 7 was 'Vista fixed'. I couldn't believe he said that on stage. So instead of a fixer service pack they jumped to 7 and it was partially a brand refresh. Who knows now?

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