Stockholm, August 21 2006.
Dear Forum:
We have a C# application running on older Smartphone models
(MS Windows 2003SE for Smartphone) where both WM5.0 and PDAs
are "overkill".
The Smartphone gets input data from a barcode scanner via
bluetooth (SPP serial profile), forwards the data via GPRS to
a webserver which validates & replies with a beep + ascii-text.
Now, at the end of a transaction, we need to send ascii-text
not to the Smartphone display but rather to a portable printer
at the remote location - preferably also pushed out from the
Smartphone via bluetooth to the mobile printer.
The REAL snag is that 99% of the market only use PDAs so the
hardware manufacturers themselves have no drivers which can
be used on Win 2003SE Smartphone OS (only PPC/WinCE or WM5.0)
and consequently we need to find a workaround to solve this.
[A] Using FieldSoftware's SmartphonePrint which does allow
for bluetooth printing to some models, but it only can print
PIM elements unfortunately.
In that case, we thought of using the Smartphone PIM task
+ Notes attached to a Task, as the text to print, but this
mean we must create a Task+Notes on-the-fly programmatically
deleting any previous ones in the process, AND launch the
3rd-party SmartphonePrint sequence without user interaction!!
Does anyone now how this could be done simply?
Else, has anyone seen any other Smartphone 2003 print
utility from "way back when" ??
[C] Better yet, would anyone knows of any usable drivers?!?
so we indeed could integrate the printing to our C# application
(deployed from MS Visual Studio 2005 Professional), and bypass
the need for a 3rd-party software, which is harder to control
AND which would lead to resorting to end-user action...
Grateful for any suggestions, albeit in priority C > B > A !
Brgds,
/Per Hagman
==============================================================
PS-1:
There are two-three well-known 3rd-party suppliers of standard
software for printing from an older Smartphone such as Qtek8080
or imate SP3 - aka SPV/Xphone/SDA/SMT5600 etc, namely:
FieldSoftware -- www.fieldsoftware.com/smartphoneprintfull.htm
JetCet -- www.westtek.com/smartphone/jetcet (only IrDA!)
PrintBoy -- www.bachmannsoftware.com/pbce.htm (only MS Mobile 5.0?)
Although articles, forums etc. indicate that PrintBoy works on
both PDA and Smartphones, its CAB-file doesn't install on our
MS Win 2003SE Smartphone...
Repligo 2.0 for Smartphones looks like another method, but we
will have to doublecheck if the HP printing is possible for
the portable printers that are available... ???
www.cerience.com/products/smp/index.htm
www.cerience.com/docs/smp/docs/index.htm#Printing
There are a number of small portable mobile printers available
on the market, many conveniently eqipped with a bluetooth
interface -- these printers are ok for field-service printing
For a visual near-complete listing, see again:
www.fieldsoftware.com/PrintersSupported.htm
PS-2:
There is also ActivePrint for PDA printing while docked, and
it might work for Smartphones. However, it doen't really apply
for printing at remote locations (or in a delivery truck) using
small mobile printers,,,
www.activeprint.pocketwatchsoftware.com/news/2006.04.04.htm
Finally at www.print4mobile.com/Engine.htm we found a system
for printing more sophisticated database-driven report prints
which is a clear overkill for us at this stage, and still we
cannot see how they would handle the lacking mobile printer drivers...
Note:
HP has discontinued its Win Smartphone 2003SE package in late 2005:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=ja-36647-1
However, here's a download link:
www.yse-uk.com/download/details.php?file=37
The Magic can upgrade WM5/WM6 disappointment, so powerful configuration and even impossible Take WM6 disappointment. A strongman change this situation?
Eh? What do you mean?
Can we use WM5 and WM6 on the Magician (WM2003) hardware?
V
vijay555 said:
Eh? What do you mean?
Can we use WM5 and WM6 on the Magician (WM2003) hardware?
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he meant he's disappointed that there is no WM6 for the magician Considering its a powerful device and is asking any strongman(sorry im not that buff Lolz) to take the challenge.
Why hasnt anyone made a wm5 rom for the magician? Its not like the device lacks the stats to run it.
bigcheekybird said:
Why hasnt anyone made a wm5 rom for the magician? Its not like the device lacks the stats to run it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After reading the numerous WM5 threads here in the magician forum, there are three reasons for this:
1. The lack of drivers,
2.And the most significant of all, the memory is too small, i think you need atleast 128MB of ROM.
3. The device is already old to even be given a new rom by hackers, most of them got a kjam or hermes already.
Eikichi said:
After reading the numerous WM5 threads here in the magician forum, there are three reasons for this:
1. The lack of drivers,
2.And the most significant of all, the memory is too small, i think you need atleast 128MB of ROM.
3. The device is already old to even be given a new rom by hackers, most of them got a kjam or hermes already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know much about the drivers but in sure that some one could create them, a device called Pharos Traveler 525e runs on 64mb of rom and has windows 5.0 installed on it, there are a few others out there aswell that run on 64mb of rom, The main reason you need such a high level of ram is because of the way wm5 was made, if you install all your programs on a sd card then your problem is virtually gone. The device may be old but im sure that there is someone out there that has the know how to take on this project.
Not RAM, Its the ROM which is small. Theres no deal with RAM, some imate jams have 128MB of RAM,heck even my iPAQ is running WM5 on a relatively small 64mb of RAM (32mb of which is useable RAM), but it has 128mb of ROM. Magician has only 64mb of ROM. The only way i know to have WM5 but still maintain the classical,simple and elegant look of the magician is to trade it for a charmer. But you lose CPU power in the process (magician-xscale;Charmer-TiOmap)
My bad, i meant rom, ive changed the post.
The Pharos has 128MB of ROM and 64MB of RAM see the specs.
http://www.pharosgps.com/products/all-in-one/PTL525E.htm
* Microsoft® Windows Mobile™ version 5.0 software
* Pocket versions of Microsoft software are included (Outlook, Word, Excel,Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer for Pocket PC)
* Processor:SC32442 300 MHz processor
* Memory: 128MB ROM, 64MB SD RAM
* Dimensions:109.7mm (L) x 59.4mm (W) x 17.6mm (T)
* Resolution: 240 x 320 with65,536 colors
* Expansion: SDIO expansion slot
* Built-inBluetooth and WiFi
Yea your right, i got my data off this webiste http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0785811
It says 64 MB ROM and 128 MB SDRAM.
my bad
HP iPAQ hx2410 Pocket PC (FA298T). this device runs stock on wm2003 se but has an update to wm5, it runs slowly but it works. heres the link to check the stats. http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF06a/21675-21679-21679-21679-297609-10244635.html.
The thing i dont get is, if you can update this to wm5, why cant it be done for the magician, they have relatively the same stats.
Look mate im not trying to be difficult for you here, you were asking the reason why, and to save you time i gave you the reason which has been repeated for numerous occassions whenever some idiot who doesnt know how to search the forum pops up the WM5 question. If you want to satisfy your curiosity then i advise you to course through all the WM5 threads in the magician forum starting from buzz lightyears thread, and hopefully youll get the answer your looking for.
Why not?
We know how to add/remove files from the ROM, many components from the Magician are used in Himalaya, Universal and BlueAngel
ex:
PXA272 -> Universal
Bluetooth -> Himalaya (both uses BlueCore3)
GFX/SDIO/USB via PXA272 -> Universal
Touchscreen -> Himalaya, BlueAngel
maybe some others, I don't know how many drivers we have to identify, and if the compatibility will be possible with a different architecture/mapping...
And Himalaya and Blueangel have 64Mb ROM and works on WM5... I don't mean we can have a full featured WM5 for Magician, but a "as small as we can" ROM, just for the POC, and let ppl build some special ROMs for special use-cases
I'll try to gather more informations on the forums on how they did cook first releases, try to create a kitchen (Blueangel or himalaya kitchen should work without many changes), and a DEV folder with filtered registries...
And maybe, after WM5.... WM6? And long walk has to be done before first ROM
--------UPDATE-------
The biggest problem seem nk.exe... since there is no nk.exe (WM5) for magician, we can only expect to hack some nk.exe (from universal for processor compatibility), or find a magician-like (same processor and major components) device which already has WM5... It may be a long long and risky walk...
@Eikichi
I have read the forums, but still dont get why the magician cant run wm5 when there are other devices out there that can.
@b0ris747
vicott
Sep 28 2005, 11:41 PM
The minimum requirement of Windows Mobile 5.0 is 32MB RAM and 64MB ROM. For devices having only 64MB ROM, there is a high chance that the devices may only be using a reduced version of WM5.
For example, HTC Galaxy has 64MB ROM and about 33-37MB of it is for persistent storage. One of the models of the upcoming Fujitsu Siemens N500 series may also have only 64MB ROM. And WM5 upgrade is also provided for devices having only 64MB ROM, e.g. iPAQ hx2110/2410, FSC Pocket LOOX 700s and Acer n50.
Taking the HTC Galaxy as an example, a reduced version of the OS may be less than 32MB. Let's take a look at other WM5 devices and their config:
* HTC Universal: 128MB ROM and about 44MB persistent storage
* HTC Wizard: 128MB ROM and about 47MB persistent storage
* HTC Galaxy: 64MB ROM and about 33-37MB persistent storage
* Dell Axim X51V: 256MB ROM and about 195MB persistent storage
* Acer n311: 128MB ROM and about 84MB persistent storage
* FSC Pocket Loox N520 (engineering set): 64MB ROM and about 26MB persistent storage
* HP iPAQ rx1950: 64MB ROM and about 33MB persistent storage
* HP iPAQ hx2190/2490: 128MB ROM and about 80MB persistent storage
* HP iPAQ hx2790: 192MB ROM and about 144MB persistent storage
I got the above info above from the link below
http://www.ppcsg.com/lofiversion/index.php/t59946.html
here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=312625&page=2 last post something that convinced me not to wait for WM5 (the english is not perfect but the point is there). But if you guys are up for the challenge, by all means my best of luck to you and thank you in advance.
The thing is though, wm5 has been put onto a device with the same rom and ram stats as the magician, so that guy is wrong in saying that it wouldnt work.
Since no visible WM5 for the magician is existing not even in experimental form, dnt u thnk d presumption that he is correct works for his favor? anyway you can rebutt all you want but the bottom line is... "There is no WM5 for the magician" in actual or experimental form.
upgrade my dopod 818 pro
wher can i update my dopod 818 pro from wm5 to wm6
Seem easier to finish the work on porting linux...
Eikichi said:
Since no visible WM5 for the magician is existing not even in experimental form, dnt u thnk d presumption that he is correct works for his favor? anyway you can rebutt all you want but the bottom line is... "There is no WM5 for the magician" in actual or experimental form.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe should ppl investigate linux as a solution... Linux exists for magician (I tried it) but still some work to do to make it bootable under linux (but has been made successfully on other devices, including WM5 compatible devices like ipaq hx4700).
It's legal (not like cracking ROMs) and a lot of informations already exists, and you won't have restrictions on how you use your GSM modem...
Magician could handle WM5... But it would require too much work for what it would offer. Linux is for me a better alternative to focus on.
...............
b0ris747 said:
We know how to add/remove files from the ROM, many components from the Magician are used in Himalaya, Universal and BlueAngel
ex:
PXA272 -> Universal
Bluetooth -> Himalaya (both uses BlueCore3)
GFX/SDIO/USB via PXA272 -> Universal
Touchscreen -> Himalaya, BlueAngel
maybe some others, I don't know how many drivers we have to identify, and if the compatibility will be possible with a different architecture/mapping...
And Himalaya and Blueangel have 64Mb ROM and works on WM5... I don't mean we can have a full featured WM5 for Magician, but a "as small as we can" ROM, just for the POC, and let ppl build some special ROMs for special use-cases
I'll try to gather more informations on the forums on how they did cook first releases, try to create a kitchen (Blueangel or himalaya kitchen should work without many changes), and a DEV folder with filtered registries...
And maybe, after WM5.... WM6? And long walk has to be done before first ROM
--------UPDATE-------
The biggest problem seem nk.exe... since there is no nk.exe (WM5) for magician, we can only expect to hack some nk.exe (from universal for processor compatibility), or find a magician-like (same processor and major components) device which already has WM5... It may be a long long and risky walk...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Htc Atom Uses the exact same processor as the htc magician, You could use the nk.exe from the atom to make the magicians one
Htc Atom
Specifications
Date Announced 2005, 3Q
Network Technology GSM 900 / 1800 / 1900
Hardware/Processor Intel PXA272 416MHz processor
Dimensions (mm) 102 x 58 x 18.5
Weight (g) 140
Display Screen Size : 2.7 inch, 240 x 320
Screen Color : TFT 262k Colours (65k effective)
Design Type : Blok
Navigation Key : 5 way Navigation Key
Other Keys : Volume up/down, Camera, Recorder
Antenna : Fixed Internal
Memory Phonebook : Advance
Internal(MB) : 64MB SDRAM, 128MB ROM
Expansion : miniSD, SDIO
Battery Battery Type : Li-ion 1500mAh
Stand-by (hrs) : 150
TalkTime(min) : 330
Entertainment
Ringtones Polyphonic : 64-chord polyphonics
Customization : MIDI, MP3, WMA, WAV
MP3 Yes
A2DP Yes
TV Receiver Null
FM Radio Yes
Video Record Yes
Video Support MPEG-4, H.263, WMV
Audio Support MIDI, MP3, WMA, WAV, AMR (Stereo Speakers, 10-band equalizer, 2.5mm Audio Jack)
Voice Support Recording, Dial
Games Solitaire and Jawbreaker
Messaging
SMS Yes
MMS Yes
EMS No
Email Pocket Outlook
Connectivity
HSDPA Null
EDGE Yes, Class 10
Bluetooth Yes
3G No
GPRS Class 10 (4+1/3+2 slots)
Infrared (IrDA) Yes
USB Port Yes
WIFI/WLAN 802.11b
Data Cable RS-232, mini USB
Software
Java (J2ME) Yes ,MIDP 2.0, CLDC 1.1
WAP Yes Ver 2.0
Platform / OS Windows Mobile 5.0
Browser Internet Explorer Mobile
Other Application Windows Media Player Mobile 10, Office Mobile (Word Mobile, Excel Mobile, Powerpoint Mobile), O2 MediaPlus, ActiveSync 4.0, PDF Viewer
Personals
Themes No Info.
Caller ID Photo
ProfileID Yes
Camera
Lens Type CMOS, 2.0 Megapixel
Digital zoom
Max. Resolution 1600 x 1200
Flash Yes
Night Mode Yes
Multi Shot Yes
Extra Features self-portrait mirror, self timer, landscape mode
Photo Format JPEG(1600x1200,1024x768, 640x480, 320x240,176x144)
Video Yes
Video Format MPEG-4 (352 x 288, 176 x 144, 128 x 96)
Its worth making the rom so that finally we can have wm5 on magician
WindowsMobile
bluecove on Windows Mobile
Introduction
Current BlueCove winsock (Microsoft Bluetooth stack) and WIDCOMM code are compiled for Windows Mobile.
Version 2.0.0 has been tested with following JVMs:
Mysaifu JVM v0.3.3 - An open-source (GPL v.2 license) Java VM on Windows Mobile 2003
IBMs WebSphere Everyplace Micro Environment v5.7.2, CDC 1.0/Foundation 1.0/Personal Profile 1.0 for Windows XP/X86
IBMs WebSphere Everyplace Micro Environment v6.1.1, CDC 1.0/Foundation 1.0/Personal Profile 1.0 for Windows XP/X86 and Windows Mobile 2003
IBMs WebSphere Everyplace Micro Environment v5.7.2, CLDC 1.1, MIDP 2.0 for Windows XP/X86.
Windows Mobile devices with Microsoft Bluetooth Stack
Windows Mobile 2003 Phone Edition with Microsoft Bluetooth Stack
Motorola MPx220
E-Plus PDA 2
O2 XDA II (T-Mobile MDA-II)
Qtek 2020
Samsung SGH-i1300
T-Mobile SDA
Vodafone VPA II
I-mate JAM
Windows Mobile 5 Phone with Microsoft Bluetooth Stack
T-Mobile MDA
QTek 9100
Windows Mobile 5 with Microsoft Bluetooth Stack
Dell Axim X51v
Windows Mobile devices with WIDCOMM Bluetooth Stack
All other not listed above
JSR-82 Installation for IBM J9 on Windows Mobile
J9 for MIDP 2.0 Profile
Copy to bluecove.jar %J9_HOME%\lib\jclMidp20\ext directory
Copy intelbth_ce.dll or bluecove_ce.dll to %J9_HOME%\bin directory
run app "%J9_HOME%\bin\j9.exe" -jcl:midp20 -Dmicroedition.connection.pkgs=com.intel.bluetooth -cp yourMidpApp.jar "-jxe:%J9_HOME%\lib\jclMidp20\jclMidp20.jxe" yourMidpApp.jad
J9 for Personal Profile 1.0
Add bluecove.jar to your classpath
Add system property -Dmicroedition.connection.pkgs=com.intel.bluetooth when running your application to enable JSR-82 connections.
This LetS U Use J2me Bluetooth midlets
More InFo AND Downloads Here Tried It With IBM J9 and it works Now all we need is MMAPI 4 JAVA AND WE ARE HAppy WIf JAVA
http://code.google.com/p/bluecove/
Thanks, I give it a try to see how it works under J9.
BTW, what real-world MIDlets did you test it with? I've been testing it (6.1.1 on the Dell Axim x51v) with Blooover ( http://trifinite.org/trifinite_stuff_blooover.html ); it discovered the other BT devices but the subsequent attcking (as opposed to the Nokia N95, which runs the MIDlet just great) didn't work, unlike with Nokia's KVM. Tested this under both the MS and the Widcomm BT stack.
Just gathering the Nokia add-on classes so that I can also deploy 3D Constructo Combat (a great multiplayer game). Do you happen to know where these classes can be downloaded from?
Well Tried
I tried the super bluetooth hack it hacks and bctest.jar and as for the jsr 184 class library i havent found it yet i however f0und the location api and the comm plugin 4 j9 what i have gatherd each class library comes with a dll and a jar eg fileconn.dll and fileconn.jar so all we have to do is find jsr 184.dll with its jar maybe some developer can make some plugin by the way jsr 135 is offered by ibm but you gotta purchase it which is crap
defcomg said:
I tried the super bluetooth hack it hacks and bctest.jar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, found them; I give them a try too.
defcomg said:
and as for the jsr 184 class library i havent found it yet i however f0und the location api and the comm plugin 4 j9 what i have gatherd each class library comes with a dll and a jar eg fileconn.dll and fileconn.jar so all we have to do is find jsr 184.dll with its jar maybe some developer can make some plugin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure IBM has bothered to release a M3G DLL? They may not even know there are 3D game sout there...
by the way jsr 135 is offered by ibm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip; I'll update the MIDlet Bible with the info.
BTW, do you happen to know where the the Nokia add-on classes can be downloaded from?
java
how can i put java on the 8125 wizard os wm6 pro tnt 5.0
kevkev said:
how can i put java on the 8125 wizard os wm6 pro tnt 5.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read the MIDlet Bible in the Wiki
I D0nt Get Ya
What Nokia add on classes Maybe u Mean Nokia api check here http://www.microemu.org/ they talk about those api's but if you want to play or run midlets ment for nokia i think you would need to put com.nokia. into the jar you wana excute there was a 2D Multiplayer Game that would run on j9 i think it was Beach Rally 2 it came pre-defined on the nokia 6230 when n0kia introduced jsr 82 on S40 plattform. Is It Possible to embedd a JvM into the Win Ce 0s Like Symbian v2 and above So u can just Excute a jar like a exe from start menu
defcomg said:
What Nokia add on classes Maybe u Mean Nokia api check here http://www.microemu.org/ they talk about those api's but if you want to play or run midlets ment for nokia i think you would need to put com.nokia. into the jar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, in the menatime, I've found them at http://4pda.ru/forum/attach/467061/Adapted.zip - working great.
defcomg said:
you wana excute there was a 2D Multiplayer Game that would run on j9 i think it was Beach Rally 2 it came pre-defined on the nokia 6230 when n0kia introduced jsr 82 on S40 plattform
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Updated the Wiki with the new info : http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=The (Java) MIDlet Bible
Samsung i900 Omnia supports JSR82
I have tried it and works great. I have tried to copy to my HTC Diamind but it does not work.
Maybe somebody more experienced on this area can make it work.
Regards
Thanks Menneisyys & Defcomg for the info regarding JSR-82 & Java support on Windows Mobile devices.
I'm trying to get a J2ME program working on WM5+ devices using the Bluetooth to connect to another device. The application works 100% on Nokia phones (I've tested it on a Nokia N95).
The installation of IBM J9 6.1.0 MIDP 2.0 with the BlueCove 2.1.0 Bluetooth stack onto a HTC TyTN II was actually quit simple. Eventually I did it a bit different from how it was described in the MIDlet Bible. I've installed the IBM J9 6.1.0 MIDP 2.0 (currently unable to get hold of the 6.1.1 eval version) by running the cab-file, added the bluecove-2.1.0.jar to the J9's \lib\jclMidp20\ext\ folder and extracted the two _ec.dll files from the bluecove jar-file to he J9's \bin\ folder.
On that HTC phone it wasn't necessary (using the MIDlet Bible as base reference) to copy the other 2 dll files or to remove the javax.microedition package from the BlueCove jar-file.
The device discovery works fine on it, although the service discovery still has some issues. Sometimes it discovers my external device's serial port service, but usually it doesn't. It even connects & communicates 100% with my external device using serial communication over BT. I have no idea why the service discovery fails most of the time. Sometimes I get it to work by disabling & enabling the BT before running the MIDlet. Any ideas? Is it possible to use BlueCove for the device discovery and connection & another BT stack for the service discovery?
I'm also using the same BlueCove-2.1.0.jar file along with the MicroEmulator on Windows XP/Vista and it works like a charm! Only problem that I've got there is that the MicroEmulator does not display the NetBeans TableItem.
Regards
Chris